I have stated earlier-We still have time to avert the” massacre” of 2024.Thank-you,Heather, once again for illuminating the past and to tie it to our today and tomorrow.
I have stated earlier-We still have time to avert the” massacre” of 2024.Thank-you,Heather, once again for illuminating the past and to tie it to our today and tomorrow.
Victoria, you’re right. Once again, there are power hungry people willing to do anything to keep power and afraid of those who are different. We need to get out the vote and spread the truth.
We also have to make sure everyone gets to vote and districts are not rigged. So many humans have been cast aside and their vote taken away by all kinds of tricks the republicons use.
Yes, every state needs to make sure that voters are automatically registered and it is easy to cast a vote. It is our right and those who mess with it should be legally held to account. We need voter posses in every to assure no republicans do what they have been doing for years. We need one person, one vote and gets rid of the EC.
I don't think, Victoria, there'll be any "massacre" in 2024.
The diaper-wearing, orange fat guy is, instead, I think, turning off many every day with his upped, out-of-control spewing of hatreds and vulgarity.
Americans know better.
If anything, Republicans for all their cowardice and enabling will experience massacre thanks to the large numbers of decent Americans who, come November, can put the miserables out of their misery.
With the incredibly high numbers of citizens willing to follow the former president in spite of all that he's shown himself to be, I don't share your optimism that "Americans know better."
Thanks, Leslie, but my gambit doesn't come just from optimism.
I turn 77 in a few days. In all these years I've read hundreds, maybe thousands, of novels and other books by Americans, on all parts of our landscape, our history, or varying levels of class and privilege. Seen hundreds of American movies. Ditto our songs and poems. In my youth I hitch-hiked everywhere, entered, enjoyed communities across the land. (And abroad.)
Just too much resilience across America, openness, decency -- in spite of the corruptions of the rich, and the venal history the rich repeatedly foist.
If you -- if we -- access our deeper, broader, finer culture, we don't get optimistic, but aware of how much greater cultural decencies interact with and surmount the co-inhabiting vulgarities.
I'll be 70 in January. This is the first time in my long life that I fear for my children's and grandchildren's futures. I'm of German descent and grew up in a Navy family where my Dad was an aviator who enlisted at the age of 17 in WWII. From the get-go I never found the former president funny nor charismatic. I knew what I was seeing was dangerous and I've seen nothing to the contrary. Do I believe in our better angels? Yes, I do. But this point in time is precarious. I'm just glad I find myself in this amazing group of people, like you, who remind me of the good.
I share the cautious optimism expressed. That there are so many who still support the malignant narcissist, knowing full well that he is a complete racist and always has been, causes me concern that their racism trumps their regard for fairness. I saw a van parked in a Walmart store yesterday that had this: The Florida license plate has "In God we trust." One bumper sticker says "F**k Biden" and the other bumper sticker has "Jesus is my Savior, Trump is my President." In my view, there is zero chance of "getting through" to someone like this. The only solution is to out vote them in November, 2024.
As much as I don’t like tofg I would never put a bumper sticker on my car that spews hate or in my opinion tells others how low one would go and how indecent you are, low life! And children know how to read!
Any ideas of unifiers out there? Remember many republicans voted for Bernie. He attracted both sides. We need a new Bernie, a voice of reason that can overcome the hate.
Even worse, the RV campground we stayed in last December in FL had flags flying that announced the orange one was their “Savior 2024”. I couldn’t even walk my dog by without feeling sickened...
I refuse to drop a penny in Florida. Even though there are good people in Florida, there are too many of the wrong kind of people there and it messes with my hope for the future.
My dad also was a soldier in WWII—drafted right out of high school. I saw a dangerous narcissist in tfg from the start and he proved to be everything I thought. He has only gotten more dangerous. We must all work to defeat him. (Also he’s a disgusting human being.)
Trump turned me off from the get go, and his subsequent unconscionable, sexist, ignorant, rude, arrogant, nasty, racist and vindictive behavior didn’t cause me to like him any better. If anything, I found it more likely that it made me detest him more.
That was only possible after a very complete, total, military defeat. A political defeat, no matter how big, is not the same thing for totally destroying the losing party's reputation.
We are age peers and lived through the same overall experiences. I do not share your optimism. Never in our history has one party worked so hard to wrestle the levers of democracy from the American people. Republicans have created laws that suppress votes. If that doesn't work, they've enacted laws that allow them to nullify votes. They've created districts that are gerrymandered to a fair-thee-well. The Supreme Court has been corrupted, literally or figuratively. The elegant system of checks and balances created by the Founders is floundering. It's like a three-legged stool on which all three legs have been unevenly cut. Their playbook is available for all to see: Project 2025 will dismantle the civil service and can only keep their jobs if they swear fealty to Trump. Many of the people who are okay with all of the above would be seen as "nice guys," but they are committed to a false god for irrational reasons.
Yes, on all accounts you cite as to the darkness, the cabals, the power of cohered money, and incoherent but festering racism, misogyny, and fear of differences threatening us.
I just trust the "us" even more.
Those poisoned, abandoned by the offshoring of their jobs (for the billionaires), those embittered by the dehumanizing of schools (by the billionaire standardized testers), and those locked into silos of hate (by the social media billionaires) all got into those plights for specific -- but remediable -- reasons.
We've many decent, capable public officials across the land who can remedy all of that.
You're further correct as to the depth of challenge in Project 2025, and in the extent of bribery, corruption, and bullying ideology in the Supreme Court
I wonder sometimes if we are so inundated daily with Trump news, always accompanied by his photo, that we are getting a skewed idea of how many Trump followers there REALLY are. He did lose in 2020.
I like and admire your outlook. I share your trust in "us" but not your optimism. Not, at least, in the short and medium term. Beyond that, my confidence runs deep.
Just now, I cannot find my pessimistic response to your first, excellent comment. I hope that you are right but, such is the immense, untrammeled power of money and the greed and fear induced stupidity that go with that power, that the victory of the good can only come at a high price.
I don’t disagree with any of the fear and anger. I’m not sure every TFFG supporter is motivated by hate. There is an incredible level of ignorance and laziness out there. There are FB postings asking people to call their representatives to oppose a Bill because it would “take away your airline points.” That is the only information given about the Bill, which is actually intended to break up the Vida/Mastercard monopoly. Without any effort to fact-check this ad, many many people have indicated “I called,” “I want my points!” Etc.
Two years before we lost our freedom of choice, I spoke to a group of Planned Parenthood volunteers, telling them we actually could lose choice. There were few questions, lots of people on their phones. Afterward, one young woman who looked suitably alarmed said “How do we know what to believe?”
Maybe it’s not just ignorance and laziness. Maybe the deluge of social media information has caused sufficient stress that their prefrontal cortex is overloaded. They can’t think clearly?
. . . and committed to the false god of genocide in Gaza. All of these horrors are related, and all are the result of Americans' inability to understand the difference between freedom and power.
Phil Balla, you are SUCH a lift today, thank you! While I well understand and often experience the fears of other posters arguing with you, my own committed study of US history reminds me and bolsters my belief in progress, even if it's the three steps forward, two steps back kind.
Study after study and poll after poll show Gen Z and Gen Alpha have far fewer of Republican prejudices. The Christofascists are blatantly targeting education to suppress what you beautifully call our "deeper broader, finer culture" to indoctrinate those generations —but they're never going to accomplish that by November 2024. We have to keep strong and fighting for another year.
Regrettably, we have again seen the re-emergence of political gangsterism and the surfacing of totalitarian aspirations in many places throughout the world, this time, to be sure, with changed symbols, with different words and slogans, with a new face. It is as if human beings were condemned to experience such things as a phase in an ever-recurring cycle. There is a task for the genuinely critical intellectual—to break that cycle, to assure a more human course for human affairs. (from: Who Voted for Hitler? by Richard F. Hamilton, as quoted by Don Simon, The Nation, Jan.15, 2021)
Are we those people? I fear not, if we only focus on November 2024 and Trump. The focus of those who support Democracy (I do include many of the GOP) must be longer term. The Christo-Fascist-Maga crowd (70,000,000 voters or so) are not here by chance. When Richie Havens sang his simple hit "Freedom" to the crowd at Woodstock, he was singing to those people who held their personal choices above any constitution or other social compact. Many of them have become MAGA and/or even more radicalized. They transcend all economic and age strata in the USA and Europe (as they did in 1933).
In the USA, they equate "freedom" with removal from government oversight and overreach ever since the Kent State massacre ("...four dead in Ohio...") and the shooting/maiming of Rudi Dutschke in Europe. My own daughter is one even though she is too young to have lived through the 60's and 70's. "It's about my personal freedom, Dad! Don't you get it!"
We will have to fight this a lot longer than most of us think. Do we have the staying power, and are we prepared?
Well said! Have you read Herman Meyer's "They Thought they were Free?". Written in 1956, a very thoughtful insight on the average Nazi citizen leading up to WWII and its conclusion.
A question for you here, Bruce: Do you feel that the MAGAt restrictions on abortion are a slap in the face to the freedom of women to have control over their own bodies? Do you think that the desire to outlaw contraception is in any way an expression of freedom? When you mention "...personal choices above any constitution or social contract" are you saying that the LGBTQ+ community is wrong in wanting to have the same rights to marry, or to express their gender as they are?
Phil, I fervently hope you are right. Two things focus my worry: 1. The idiotic Electoral College gives the win to a handful of swing-state voters rather that the broad American electorate. and 2. Our fatally flawed one-choice-only, plurality voting system creates the "voter's dilemma" (Do I vote for whom I prefer or vote for a candidate with a chance of winning?) leading to the "spoiler effect" that might throw yet another election.
Phil, I share your realism. It's just one of those facts of human nature that bad news forms the facade of most of our lives. I also spent several years crisscrossing the country via my right thumb, and discovered the deep, solid, foundation our culture is built on.
Only acknowledging bad news is much less than half the picture. Imagine trying to run a business while only looking at its debts. There are two numbers from the 2020 election that give me real comfort - 81,000,000 and 320. The pollsters didn't predict either of them. Thank-you Phil, for this dose of realism :)
Openness and decency in our absolute commitment to the ethnic cleansing of Palestine? If we stopped being hypocrites and saying all people are created equal - except Palestinians, of course - we might have a chance of remaining free and equal ourselves.
LeslieN, on the other hand we must never forget that TFFG never, not once, won the most votes….lost by millions each time! [Dang Electoral College!] His stalwart supporters—a minority of voters—bought into his schtick & gleefully drink all the cult-ade he can provide. They (and he) are loud and make a ruckus, but they are still the minority. If at least as many who voted in 2020 vote again in 2024–and hopefully many more will, given the clear and present danger he & his backers represent—he will be left in the dustbin of history. AND I want him held legally and financially accountable for all his misdeeds via our legal system.
Unfortunately. like Bruce stated above, this is going to be a very long haul. trump is only one of many fascists rising in America and around the world.
We need to look at all those who back the Federalist Society, the Heritage Society, the Mercers, the Kochs, on and on. They fuel the propaganda machines (including Bannon and K. Conway) and are responsible behind the scenes. I wonder who fuels Stephen Miller, our very own Goebbels.
Yes, I’ve been telling family, friends & neighbors about these efforts that have once again sprung up in the USA (and providing them with factual, vetted information sources) and this time we have to grapple with social media & online fakery as well. My fervent hope is that folks are paying attention and ready to strain at the wheel to move our democracy forward. There is dialog in a old movie starring Goldie Hawn where she is testifying before Congress and she ends her statement by looking them square in the eyes and says “I’ll be watching you like a hawk”. Now is no time to look away.
We still have the same issues with the electoral college. And we must never forget the Supreme Farce's decision in Bush v Gore. They stopped the vote count and I will never find it anything but mind boggling that Gore conceded under those circumstances.
On November 8, 2016, I discovered that Americans in great numbers did not know shit and a destructive cult took over our government. When we corrected that tragic travesty 4 years later, we discovered the destructive force of this ignorant American Cult that never learned better.
Some of us do, obviously. How many, we won’t know until election results come in. Realism suggests we work very, very hard to get those who do know better to cast their ballots.
And the current danger is not that enough people will vote for him. The current danger is that Catch-22 situations like the Palestinians and Ukraine will make many people not vote at all. His plurality will come from Democrats on the fence about the Israeli war
...especially young people who get their "news" only from social media. I understand their concerns about what's happening in Gaza, but electing tfg is definitely NOT going to help the situation.
Have we learned...we the people? Be ever vigilant, vote -a hard fought for responsibility of free people- there’s much to right this ship yet, this world needs strong American support , smart leadership, and HOPE. Our own history should suffice , guided by a brilliant constitution , to hold equality up for the worldly example IT CAN WORK . The many peoples suffering under their own country’s autocratic takeovers ,leanings, and corruption , they are looking for peace , looking to America for their own dream too.
People leave their homeland carrying regret, fearing for their lives. How familiar this scenario is across the world...war is NOT the answer..killing ‘the enemy’ is NOT the end of ‘it’...compromise, steady support spreads stability .
Takers have one goal -to take more ..their drives are insatiable ,selfish and addicting. It isn’t criticism or smug smurfing.
Leadership requires considerably more time because they are holding the hand of another , carrying some of their weight so to speak to both ( all) get to the top of the hill and see together , NOT be ‘king of the mountain’...
WE can be that leader , holding our neighbors from afar and widen the safety net ..THATS contagious ..friends . It’s what selfish small sycophants and fear follow folly for. Period.
How to stay the UNION? Join the caravan of those wanting to serve .
In 2016, I expected said orange fat guy to win, a view ridiculed by friends far better informed than I.
They never spoke to me again after he did win the election.
I have quite often seen what was coming but now I am making no predictions as to the outcome of the 2024 election.
I am, however, afraid and shall continue to fear for America, for the world, as long as that orange guy walks free.
Reflecting on the fear and foreboding that his freedom and that of his main henchmen arouse in me, I fully expect danger. This election will bring trouble whoever wins it. Unless that man's health fails -- and even then, as long as he is alive and free. Such is his power over those who follow him that his freedom is incompatible with everyone else's life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
I seem not to have been mistaken on September 10th 2001 when I wrote that our democracies were in imminent danger. Above all, when I expressed doubt about our survival instincts.
I also predicted Trump would win. It was summer 2015 and I made my friends listen. I told them, if Trump runs he will win. They have never forgotten my prediction. At the time I thought it was because he was a reality TV star and just like Ronald Reagan people believed the fiction he portrayed--in Trump’s case the role was successful businessman. I was hoping at the time he would not run but given the way people lap up what they see on reality shows as being real, unscripted and undirected I figured they would. I have met adults who do not know the suburb they are living in is a separate entity from the big city next door. I have met first time voters in their 50s and 60s who we poll workers would congratulate (for finally finally getting around to their civic duty). For all I know they finally came In to especially vote for their businessman hero Trump. At the time I was naive about how Trump would be backed by big money interests (who want to avoid regulation at any cost) and be a boon for big media and a comfort to other countries waiting for us to get our comeuppance. Now we can’t shake the guy. Lots of Americans believe all the stuff they see on TV and in the movies so they can be bamboozled. Meanwhile otherwise good people watch reality TV Fox as though it is real, unscripted and undirected. Then there’s our corrupted SCOTUS packed with believers in the reality show version of the Bible and also believers of the racist reality show of our country’s founding. It is all so crazy.
Well, let's be thankful if we've eyes to see, ears to hear and a mind that perceives and understands.
In the mid-80's, observing that businessmen can be intuitive, while too many politicians are like generals whose solid mindset was molded by the last war, so they're set to lose the next one, I wondered how a gifted tycoon would fare in politics.
Berlusconi showed us all. He could serve only himself, not the country.
Agent Orange isn't even a serious businessman, just a conman who has bankrupted everything he touches and everyone with whom he had dealings. His book should have been called The Art of the Steal.
Educated New Yorkers all know. Others don't. And they follow this barker from a Coney Island sideshow, useful only to himself... and to his boss in the Kremlin
The orange guy is a medical time bomb, the best MD support notwithstanding. I've no doubt conservative societies are feverishly casting about for a replacement. Agree this election will bring trouble-before and after, no matter what any conviction (or lack of) brings.
These aren't just 'interesting' times, but chaotic ,on a level unprecedented.
Yeah, it scares me, but I'm ornery enough to push back.
"A medical time bomb". Yes, but only his body can read the timer, and power, resentment and a thirst for vengeance are all powerful drugs. The kind that can keep him walking even when, like a Tex Avery villain, he's walked right over the edge of a cliff.
Talking of time bombs, in a short poem, I once described him as one... strapped to the back of the nation.
*
As for pushing back -- great! That is what everyone with an ounce of sanity, a minimal sense of responsibility, has to do.
It's only heroic because there are so many anti-heroes around, so many couch potatoes and complacent "can't-happen-here" folks. But it already has happened. And even after the January 6th show, we still haven't seen the full dress rehearsal, let alone the premiere...
What I find fascinating is the resonance of his “American Carnage” message. We are in the convergence of many lines of economic history: the conclusion of the Corporate-Power march towards capturing the working cogs of the Legislative/Judicial Systems, the rise of Psy-Ops level social media messaging and Nation-State cyber warfare targeting misinformation/disinformation precisely as never before , the huge expanse between Worker Pay and Corporate Compensation. There is a lot of rightful disgruntlement out there. We were asleep at the wheel to stop it because it felt like “Democracy Won” after the Fall of the Wall. We now wake up to a present that pits two ways of thinking against each other: Do we crash the whole system and rebuild? Do we fix what we’ve sleepily / foolishly inherited? I do not care for the leader of the gop, but he needs to be taken down / disempowered by his own people. Besides, trump is just a willing puppet for paymasters with very deep pockets. Once he’s yesterday’s news, there will be another, and another, and another. This song doesn’t end with one verse.
Very, very well stated, MLRGRMI. Trump must have seemed ideal to those paying for the demolition of the Federal State, given his crude human wreckers' ball cum bulldozer functioning.
And, of course, there will be others. Where elections can't be fixed for the rump of what once was the Republican Party, using time-sanctioned forms of cheating and gerrymandering, there are always Democratic Party politicians and/or party officials to be bribed or bought, and wonders have been achieved by parachuting judges with Identikit political profiles into key posts throughout the judiciary. If we take a few pages from the Putin playbook, a peppering of third parties that are no parties at all and of independent leaders who are in the pocket of the same paymasters will do the trick nicely. Divide and Rule... For a start, DT is nothing if not marvelously divisive.
I assume that DT will be watching Moscow attentively in early 2024 to see how his mentor stage-manages presidential elections. And here too, though the all hang onto Putin's coat tails (oldie expression) there are monsters more ferocious waiting in the wings...
Plus cela change... Changes to ensure that nothing changes.
Let's hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. By doing everything in our power, now and till november, to convince those who still think "republican" stands for conservative values rather than fascism.
i remember generally believing that about *voting* Americans ... right up until I observed what appeared to be a Generation-Y woman overjoyed to be at a 2016 Trump rally.
The year 1835 saw the fraudulent Treaty of New Echota, "surrendering" the Cherokee lands in Georgia and Tennessee and bringing on the Trail of Tears when the U.S. Army was called in to support the naked fraud.
The Cherokee never gave up sovereignty over their land, a sovereignty that was famously recognized by the U.S. Supreme Court.
This means that, in Marjorie Taylor Greene's congressional district, all the county courts lack territorial jurisdiction to hear any case whatsoever. Somebody could bring a test case with a parking ticket...
On a related useless-representative note, Boebert is moving to a new district in CO since her opponent in her current district is likely to beat her this time. Like George Santos, Congress is the best gig she’ll ever get in her uninspiring lifetime.
Nothing like a bit of schadenfreude to start Friday on a positive note is there? And the fact that she wants to represent Ken Buck’s old district? Wonder if the residents of the 4th really want someone who has done literally nothing to create legislation that serves any of them. Should be interesting!
Form a more perfect Union, establishing Justice, Insure domestic tranquility, Provide national defense, Promote general welfare, and Secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity.
New Echota was the name of the capital city of the Cherokee. Their government refused to negotiate when the U.S. government asked them to leave their homeland, so the U.S. got a Cherokee faction to pretend to be their government and sign the fraudulent Treaty of New Echota giving up all the Cherokee land in Georgia and Tennessee.
Brilliant Gloria! I was just puzzling over that as I scrolled through the comments. I think you must be on target there! Even if HCR was not aiming for that analogy it seems remarkably apt, especially the parts about bunches of wary and frightened soldiers and their leaders seeking vengeance for having been so totally caught off guard!
The massacre of 2023-2024 is already in progress. In Gaza. Americans are so wrapped up in themselves that they refuse to see the MASSACRE which we are paying for and supporting with every ounce of political strength we have. If I were a fundamentalist Christian, I would predict that our freedom will end in November, 2024, as punishment for our massacre of 2,000,000 Gazans.
Your post is neither true nor accurate. The barbaric slaughter occurred on 10/7/24. Gazans are being used to shield criminals from justice while US aid is stolen by the criminals.
On what planet do you see that occurring? It's neither happening nor going to happen on this one. That thousands of noncombatant Gazans are dying in the war is sad beyond measure, but also inevitable, because Hamas loves to hide among them.
All Hamas needs to do to end this war is utter two words: 'We surrender." Perhaps aim your ire at the proper target, not Americans or Israelis.
The 1st 5 minutes confirms my opinion that this is yet another history of atrocities that cannot justify acts like what just happened on 10/7.
Hamas should have surrendered on 10/8 rather than turn their people into martyrs. That's what's appalling. Israel has an obligation to the world to force Hamas surrender and no one should expect Isreal to lose any more soldiers to do it, as the murderers hide among the population of willing martyrs. May they enjoy their f-king virgins.
What a load of hooey. There was ZERO "ethnic cleansing" of Palestinians in Gaza. None. The only "ethnic cleansing" in Gaza was of Jews, who were unilaterally pulled out of Gaza years ago BY ISRAEL to make Gaza entirely Palestinian. Israel said to Palestinians when the Jewish population transfer was complete, "You said you wanted us gone. We are. The place is all yours now, entirely Palestinian. Enjoy."
Gazans promptly wrecked the thriving commercial base Israel left behind, depriving Gaza of critical revenue generators. Gazans elected the terror group Hamas as its government. Gazans cheered as Hamas launched more than 50,000 rockets at Israel. Gazans stood by without comment as Hamas raped, tortured, dismembered, and murdered more than 1,000 innocent Israelis on Oct. 7--baking a baby in an oven a particularly Hamasian touch.
Hundreds of non-Hamas Gazans joined the murder spree that day, after hundreds of other Gazans, whom Israel had granted permission to work in Israel, provided Hamas critical intelligence on where to attack, kidnap, and kill their employers and coworkers. A new poll by a respected Palestinian polling organization shows that 70+ percent of Gazans approved of Hamas's slaughter, think it should happen again, and that Israel must disappear because Palestine cannot live next to a Jewish state.
Yet you have the gall to paint Israel's response as "mass murder" and "genocide." Did you praise Osame bin Laden as a heroic freedom fighter for 9-11, too?
I have stated earlier-We still have time to avert the” massacre” of 2024.Thank-you,Heather, once again for illuminating the past and to tie it to our today and tomorrow.
Victoria, you’re right. Once again, there are power hungry people willing to do anything to keep power and afraid of those who are different. We need to get out the vote and spread the truth.
We also have to make sure everyone gets to vote and districts are not rigged. So many humans have been cast aside and their vote taken away by all kinds of tricks the republicons use.
Yes, every state needs to make sure that voters are automatically registered and it is easy to cast a vote. It is our right and those who mess with it should be legally held to account. We need voter posses in every to assure no republicans do what they have been doing for years. We need one person, one vote and gets rid of the EC.
I don't think, Victoria, there'll be any "massacre" in 2024.
The diaper-wearing, orange fat guy is, instead, I think, turning off many every day with his upped, out-of-control spewing of hatreds and vulgarity.
Americans know better.
If anything, Republicans for all their cowardice and enabling will experience massacre thanks to the large numbers of decent Americans who, come November, can put the miserables out of their misery.
Happy New Year.
With the incredibly high numbers of citizens willing to follow the former president in spite of all that he's shown himself to be, I don't share your optimism that "Americans know better."
Thanks, Leslie, but my gambit doesn't come just from optimism.
I turn 77 in a few days. In all these years I've read hundreds, maybe thousands, of novels and other books by Americans, on all parts of our landscape, our history, or varying levels of class and privilege. Seen hundreds of American movies. Ditto our songs and poems. In my youth I hitch-hiked everywhere, entered, enjoyed communities across the land. (And abroad.)
Just too much resilience across America, openness, decency -- in spite of the corruptions of the rich, and the venal history the rich repeatedly foist.
If you -- if we -- access our deeper, broader, finer culture, we don't get optimistic, but aware of how much greater cultural decencies interact with and surmount the co-inhabiting vulgarities.
I'll be 70 in January. This is the first time in my long life that I fear for my children's and grandchildren's futures. I'm of German descent and grew up in a Navy family where my Dad was an aviator who enlisted at the age of 17 in WWII. From the get-go I never found the former president funny nor charismatic. I knew what I was seeing was dangerous and I've seen nothing to the contrary. Do I believe in our better angels? Yes, I do. But this point in time is precarious. I'm just glad I find myself in this amazing group of people, like you, who remind me of the good.
I share the cautious optimism expressed. That there are so many who still support the malignant narcissist, knowing full well that he is a complete racist and always has been, causes me concern that their racism trumps their regard for fairness. I saw a van parked in a Walmart store yesterday that had this: The Florida license plate has "In God we trust." One bumper sticker says "F**k Biden" and the other bumper sticker has "Jesus is my Savior, Trump is my President." In my view, there is zero chance of "getting through" to someone like this. The only solution is to out vote them in November, 2024.
As much as I don’t like tofg I would never put a bumper sticker on my car that spews hate or in my opinion tells others how low one would go and how indecent you are, low life! And children know how to read!
Any ideas of unifiers out there? Remember many republicans voted for Bernie. He attracted both sides. We need a new Bernie, a voice of reason that can overcome the hate.
Even worse, the RV campground we stayed in last December in FL had flags flying that announced the orange one was their “Savior 2024”. I couldn’t even walk my dog by without feeling sickened...
Maybe waterboarding?
I refuse to drop a penny in Florida. Even though there are good people in Florida, there are too many of the wrong kind of people there and it messes with my hope for the future.
My dad also was a soldier in WWII—drafted right out of high school. I saw a dangerous narcissist in tfg from the start and he proved to be everything I thought. He has only gotten more dangerous. We must all work to defeat him. (Also he’s a disgusting human being.)
I knew also even before he started to run for office what a horrible human he is😬
I share many of your thoughts. I hope Phil is correct.
Trump turned me off from the get go, and his subsequent unconscionable, sexist, ignorant, rude, arrogant, nasty, racist and vindictive behavior didn’t cause me to like him any better. If anything, I found it more likely that it made me detest him more.
That was only possible after a very complete, total, military defeat. A political defeat, no matter how big, is not the same thing for totally destroying the losing party's reputation.
No; but our ideals, codified but not yet completely realized, are far stronger.
I'm 74 - my kids voted for Ralph Nader and got George Bush. They are in their 40s now, we can count on them to remember.
We are age peers and lived through the same overall experiences. I do not share your optimism. Never in our history has one party worked so hard to wrestle the levers of democracy from the American people. Republicans have created laws that suppress votes. If that doesn't work, they've enacted laws that allow them to nullify votes. They've created districts that are gerrymandered to a fair-thee-well. The Supreme Court has been corrupted, literally or figuratively. The elegant system of checks and balances created by the Founders is floundering. It's like a three-legged stool on which all three legs have been unevenly cut. Their playbook is available for all to see: Project 2025 will dismantle the civil service and can only keep their jobs if they swear fealty to Trump. Many of the people who are okay with all of the above would be seen as "nice guys," but they are committed to a false god for irrational reasons.
For the sake all of us, I dearly hope I'm wrong.
Eloquently apt, MisTBlu, truly spoken.
Yes, on all accounts you cite as to the darkness, the cabals, the power of cohered money, and incoherent but festering racism, misogyny, and fear of differences threatening us.
I just trust the "us" even more.
Those poisoned, abandoned by the offshoring of their jobs (for the billionaires), those embittered by the dehumanizing of schools (by the billionaire standardized testers), and those locked into silos of hate (by the social media billionaires) all got into those plights for specific -- but remediable -- reasons.
We've many decent, capable public officials across the land who can remedy all of that.
You're further correct as to the depth of challenge in Project 2025, and in the extent of bribery, corruption, and bullying ideology in the Supreme Court
I just trust the "us" even more.
I wonder sometimes if we are so inundated daily with Trump news, always accompanied by his photo, that we are getting a skewed idea of how many Trump followers there REALLY are. He did lose in 2020.
I like and admire your outlook. I share your trust in "us" but not your optimism. Not, at least, in the short and medium term. Beyond that, my confidence runs deep.
Just now, I cannot find my pessimistic response to your first, excellent comment. I hope that you are right but, such is the immense, untrammeled power of money and the greed and fear induced stupidity that go with that power, that the victory of the good can only come at a high price.
I don’t disagree with any of the fear and anger. I’m not sure every TFFG supporter is motivated by hate. There is an incredible level of ignorance and laziness out there. There are FB postings asking people to call their representatives to oppose a Bill because it would “take away your airline points.” That is the only information given about the Bill, which is actually intended to break up the Vida/Mastercard monopoly. Without any effort to fact-check this ad, many many people have indicated “I called,” “I want my points!” Etc.
Two years before we lost our freedom of choice, I spoke to a group of Planned Parenthood volunteers, telling them we actually could lose choice. There were few questions, lots of people on their phones. Afterward, one young woman who looked suitably alarmed said “How do we know what to believe?”
Maybe it’s not just ignorance and laziness. Maybe the deluge of social media information has caused sufficient stress that their prefrontal cortex is overloaded. They can’t think clearly?
And when the time comes we will all know what to do.
. . . and committed to the false god of genocide in Gaza. All of these horrors are related, and all are the result of Americans' inability to understand the difference between freedom and power.
Phil Balla, you are SUCH a lift today, thank you! While I well understand and often experience the fears of other posters arguing with you, my own committed study of US history reminds me and bolsters my belief in progress, even if it's the three steps forward, two steps back kind.
Study after study and poll after poll show Gen Z and Gen Alpha have far fewer of Republican prejudices. The Christofascists are blatantly targeting education to suppress what you beautifully call our "deeper broader, finer culture" to indoctrinate those generations —but they're never going to accomplish that by November 2024. We have to keep strong and fighting for another year.
Regrettably, we have again seen the re-emergence of political gangsterism and the surfacing of totalitarian aspirations in many places throughout the world, this time, to be sure, with changed symbols, with different words and slogans, with a new face. It is as if human beings were condemned to experience such things as a phase in an ever-recurring cycle. There is a task for the genuinely critical intellectual—to break that cycle, to assure a more human course for human affairs. (from: Who Voted for Hitler? by Richard F. Hamilton, as quoted by Don Simon, The Nation, Jan.15, 2021)
Are we those people? I fear not, if we only focus on November 2024 and Trump. The focus of those who support Democracy (I do include many of the GOP) must be longer term. The Christo-Fascist-Maga crowd (70,000,000 voters or so) are not here by chance. When Richie Havens sang his simple hit "Freedom" to the crowd at Woodstock, he was singing to those people who held their personal choices above any constitution or other social compact. Many of them have become MAGA and/or even more radicalized. They transcend all economic and age strata in the USA and Europe (as they did in 1933).
In the USA, they equate "freedom" with removal from government oversight and overreach ever since the Kent State massacre ("...four dead in Ohio...") and the shooting/maiming of Rudi Dutschke in Europe. My own daughter is one even though she is too young to have lived through the 60's and 70's. "It's about my personal freedom, Dad! Don't you get it!"
We will have to fight this a lot longer than most of us think. Do we have the staying power, and are we prepared?
Well said! Have you read Herman Meyer's "They Thought they were Free?". Written in 1956, a very thoughtful insight on the average Nazi citizen leading up to WWII and its conclusion.
A question for you here, Bruce: Do you feel that the MAGAt restrictions on abortion are a slap in the face to the freedom of women to have control over their own bodies? Do you think that the desire to outlaw contraception is in any way an expression of freedom? When you mention "...personal choices above any constitution or social contract" are you saying that the LGBTQ+ community is wrong in wanting to have the same rights to marry, or to express their gender as they are?
Phil, I fervently hope you are right. Two things focus my worry: 1. The idiotic Electoral College gives the win to a handful of swing-state voters rather that the broad American electorate. and 2. Our fatally flawed one-choice-only, plurality voting system creates the "voter's dilemma" (Do I vote for whom I prefer or vote for a candidate with a chance of winning?) leading to the "spoiler effect" that might throw yet another election.
Phil, I share your realism. It's just one of those facts of human nature that bad news forms the facade of most of our lives. I also spent several years crisscrossing the country via my right thumb, and discovered the deep, solid, foundation our culture is built on.
Only acknowledging bad news is much less than half the picture. Imagine trying to run a business while only looking at its debts. There are two numbers from the 2020 election that give me real comfort - 81,000,000 and 320. The pollsters didn't predict either of them. Thank-you Phil, for this dose of realism :)
Openness and decency in our absolute commitment to the ethnic cleansing of Palestine? If we stopped being hypocrites and saying all people are created equal - except Palestinians, of course - we might have a chance of remaining free and equal ourselves.
LeslieN, on the other hand we must never forget that TFFG never, not once, won the most votes….lost by millions each time! [Dang Electoral College!] His stalwart supporters—a minority of voters—bought into his schtick & gleefully drink all the cult-ade he can provide. They (and he) are loud and make a ruckus, but they are still the minority. If at least as many who voted in 2020 vote again in 2024–and hopefully many more will, given the clear and present danger he & his backers represent—he will be left in the dustbin of history. AND I want him held legally and financially accountable for all his misdeeds via our legal system.
Unfortunately. like Bruce stated above, this is going to be a very long haul. trump is only one of many fascists rising in America and around the world.
We need to look at all those who back the Federalist Society, the Heritage Society, the Mercers, the Kochs, on and on. They fuel the propaganda machines (including Bannon and K. Conway) and are responsible behind the scenes. I wonder who fuels Stephen Miller, our very own Goebbels.
Madmen must not unwatched go.
Yes, I’ve been telling family, friends & neighbors about these efforts that have once again sprung up in the USA (and providing them with factual, vetted information sources) and this time we have to grapple with social media & online fakery as well. My fervent hope is that folks are paying attention and ready to strain at the wheel to move our democracy forward. There is dialog in a old movie starring Goldie Hawn where she is testifying before Congress and she ends her statement by looking them square in the eyes and says “I’ll be watching you like a hawk”. Now is no time to look away.
Absolutely, Barbara! Eyes wide open and focused. Expansive focus.
We still have the same issues with the electoral college. And we must never forget the Supreme Farce's decision in Bush v Gore. They stopped the vote count and I will never find it anything but mind boggling that Gore conceded under those circumstances.
On November 8, 2016, I discovered that Americans in great numbers did not know shit and a destructive cult took over our government. When we corrected that tragic travesty 4 years later, we discovered the destructive force of this ignorant American Cult that never learned better.
Some of us do, obviously. How many, we won’t know until election results come in. Realism suggests we work very, very hard to get those who do know better to cast their ballots.
And the current danger is not that enough people will vote for him. The current danger is that Catch-22 situations like the Palestinians and Ukraine will make many people not vote at all. His plurality will come from Democrats on the fence about the Israeli war
...especially young people who get their "news" only from social media. I understand their concerns about what's happening in Gaza, but electing tfg is definitely NOT going to help the situation.
Have we learned...we the people? Be ever vigilant, vote -a hard fought for responsibility of free people- there’s much to right this ship yet, this world needs strong American support , smart leadership, and HOPE. Our own history should suffice , guided by a brilliant constitution , to hold equality up for the worldly example IT CAN WORK . The many peoples suffering under their own country’s autocratic takeovers ,leanings, and corruption , they are looking for peace , looking to America for their own dream too.
People leave their homeland carrying regret, fearing for their lives. How familiar this scenario is across the world...war is NOT the answer..killing ‘the enemy’ is NOT the end of ‘it’...compromise, steady support spreads stability .
Takers have one goal -to take more ..their drives are insatiable ,selfish and addicting. It isn’t criticism or smug smurfing.
Leadership requires considerably more time because they are holding the hand of another , carrying some of their weight so to speak to both ( all) get to the top of the hill and see together , NOT be ‘king of the mountain’...
WE can be that leader , holding our neighbors from afar and widen the safety net ..THATS contagious ..friends . It’s what selfish small sycophants and fear follow folly for. Period.
How to stay the UNION? Join the caravan of those wanting to serve .
💙💙 AND VOTE ALL THE COMPLICIT TAKERS OUT💙💙
Sadly with you, LeslieN.
I hope you are right, Phil.
In 2016, I expected said orange fat guy to win, a view ridiculed by friends far better informed than I.
They never spoke to me again after he did win the election.
I have quite often seen what was coming but now I am making no predictions as to the outcome of the 2024 election.
I am, however, afraid and shall continue to fear for America, for the world, as long as that orange guy walks free.
Reflecting on the fear and foreboding that his freedom and that of his main henchmen arouse in me, I fully expect danger. This election will bring trouble whoever wins it. Unless that man's health fails -- and even then, as long as he is alive and free. Such is his power over those who follow him that his freedom is incompatible with everyone else's life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
I seem not to have been mistaken on September 10th 2001 when I wrote that our democracies were in imminent danger. Above all, when I expressed doubt about our survival instincts.
I also predicted Trump would win. It was summer 2015 and I made my friends listen. I told them, if Trump runs he will win. They have never forgotten my prediction. At the time I thought it was because he was a reality TV star and just like Ronald Reagan people believed the fiction he portrayed--in Trump’s case the role was successful businessman. I was hoping at the time he would not run but given the way people lap up what they see on reality shows as being real, unscripted and undirected I figured they would. I have met adults who do not know the suburb they are living in is a separate entity from the big city next door. I have met first time voters in their 50s and 60s who we poll workers would congratulate (for finally finally getting around to their civic duty). For all I know they finally came In to especially vote for their businessman hero Trump. At the time I was naive about how Trump would be backed by big money interests (who want to avoid regulation at any cost) and be a boon for big media and a comfort to other countries waiting for us to get our comeuppance. Now we can’t shake the guy. Lots of Americans believe all the stuff they see on TV and in the movies so they can be bamboozled. Meanwhile otherwise good people watch reality TV Fox as though it is real, unscripted and undirected. Then there’s our corrupted SCOTUS packed with believers in the reality show version of the Bible and also believers of the racist reality show of our country’s founding. It is all so crazy.
Well, let's be thankful if we've eyes to see, ears to hear and a mind that perceives and understands.
In the mid-80's, observing that businessmen can be intuitive, while too many politicians are like generals whose solid mindset was molded by the last war, so they're set to lose the next one, I wondered how a gifted tycoon would fare in politics.
Berlusconi showed us all. He could serve only himself, not the country.
Agent Orange isn't even a serious businessman, just a conman who has bankrupted everything he touches and everyone with whom he had dealings. His book should have been called The Art of the Steal.
Educated New Yorkers all know. Others don't. And they follow this barker from a Coney Island sideshow, useful only to himself... and to his boss in the Kremlin
The orange guy is a medical time bomb, the best MD support notwithstanding. I've no doubt conservative societies are feverishly casting about for a replacement. Agree this election will bring trouble-before and after, no matter what any conviction (or lack of) brings.
These aren't just 'interesting' times, but chaotic ,on a level unprecedented.
Yeah, it scares me, but I'm ornery enough to push back.
"A medical time bomb". Yes, but only his body can read the timer, and power, resentment and a thirst for vengeance are all powerful drugs. The kind that can keep him walking even when, like a Tex Avery villain, he's walked right over the edge of a cliff.
Talking of time bombs, in a short poem, I once described him as one... strapped to the back of the nation.
*
As for pushing back -- great! That is what everyone with an ounce of sanity, a minimal sense of responsibility, has to do.
It's only heroic because there are so many anti-heroes around, so many couch potatoes and complacent "can't-happen-here" folks. But it already has happened. And even after the January 6th show, we still haven't seen the full dress rehearsal, let alone the premiere...
What I find fascinating is the resonance of his “American Carnage” message. We are in the convergence of many lines of economic history: the conclusion of the Corporate-Power march towards capturing the working cogs of the Legislative/Judicial Systems, the rise of Psy-Ops level social media messaging and Nation-State cyber warfare targeting misinformation/disinformation precisely as never before , the huge expanse between Worker Pay and Corporate Compensation. There is a lot of rightful disgruntlement out there. We were asleep at the wheel to stop it because it felt like “Democracy Won” after the Fall of the Wall. We now wake up to a present that pits two ways of thinking against each other: Do we crash the whole system and rebuild? Do we fix what we’ve sleepily / foolishly inherited? I do not care for the leader of the gop, but he needs to be taken down / disempowered by his own people. Besides, trump is just a willing puppet for paymasters with very deep pockets. Once he’s yesterday’s news, there will be another, and another, and another. This song doesn’t end with one verse.
Very, very well stated, MLRGRMI. Trump must have seemed ideal to those paying for the demolition of the Federal State, given his crude human wreckers' ball cum bulldozer functioning.
And, of course, there will be others. Where elections can't be fixed for the rump of what once was the Republican Party, using time-sanctioned forms of cheating and gerrymandering, there are always Democratic Party politicians and/or party officials to be bribed or bought, and wonders have been achieved by parachuting judges with Identikit political profiles into key posts throughout the judiciary. If we take a few pages from the Putin playbook, a peppering of third parties that are no parties at all and of independent leaders who are in the pocket of the same paymasters will do the trick nicely. Divide and Rule... For a start, DT is nothing if not marvelously divisive.
I assume that DT will be watching Moscow attentively in early 2024 to see how his mentor stage-manages presidential elections. And here too, though the all hang onto Putin's coat tails (oldie expression) there are monsters more ferocious waiting in the wings...
Plus cela change... Changes to ensure that nothing changes.
And fear; I don't believe he's felt this level before.
"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing.”
Edmund Burke:
Let's hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. By doing everything in our power, now and till november, to convince those who still think "republican" stands for conservative values rather than fascism.
And remember, "Hitler was elected".
I wonder if he is building his private militia of Orange Shirts?
Desantis built his already.
Please Phil be right!
Everyone should if possible watch Netflix “World War Two”
I was born in 1946. From then on we ( new borns) were given many wonderful opportunities . Many still available.
When vulgarity and stupidity and self-haters rule all of us suffer! May we truly take note and not repeat history.
Happy re-newal to ALL!🌈🎶👏🏻🦋🥰
I hope you’re right, but I don’t feel it here in deep red Texas.
May your assessment, Phil Balla, be the correct one!
"Americans know better."
i remember generally believing that about *voting* Americans ... right up until I observed what appeared to be a Generation-Y woman overjoyed to be at a 2016 Trump rally.
U really think she is speaking about Trump
I truly hope you are right. And I truly fear you are wrong.
We wish.
The year 1835 saw the fraudulent Treaty of New Echota, "surrendering" the Cherokee lands in Georgia and Tennessee and bringing on the Trail of Tears when the U.S. Army was called in to support the naked fraud.
The Cherokee never gave up sovereignty over their land, a sovereignty that was famously recognized by the U.S. Supreme Court.
This means that, in Marjorie Taylor Greene's congressional district, all the county courts lack territorial jurisdiction to hear any case whatsoever. Somebody could bring a test case with a parking ticket...
On a related useless-representative note, Boebert is moving to a new district in CO since her opponent in her current district is likely to beat her this time. Like George Santos, Congress is the best gig she’ll ever get in her uninspiring lifetime.
Nothing like a bit of schadenfreude to start Friday on a positive note is there? And the fact that she wants to represent Ken Buck’s old district? Wonder if the residents of the 4th really want someone who has done literally nothing to create legislation that serves any of them. Should be interesting!
Whattaya know, little Schmeeckle brings forth a good point!
I was like, “Is this the same guy?”...
Apparently. If so, a nice surprise.
I'm going to have a look behind that duck blind...
It's nothing I haven't said before. "Corporate Joe" Biden is worse than Trump, and HCR is a dishonest Biden shill.
History - indeed we've experienced atrocities and still are. But there is evidence that they are becoming less frequent. Hang in there, be patient.
Imagines there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too"
John Lennon
https://g.co/kgs/r1UbLj
We have a goal!
Form a more perfect Union, establishing Justice, Insure domestic tranquility, Provide national defense, Promote general welfare, and Secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity.
I thought SCOTUS ruled that Indians were sovereign over the old "Indian Country" of Oklahoma. Was the New Echota ruling a separate one?
New Echota was the name of the capital city of the Cherokee. Their government refused to negotiate when the U.S. government asked them to leave their homeland, so the U.S. got a Cherokee faction to pretend to be their government and sign the fraudulent Treaty of New Echota giving up all the Cherokee land in Georgia and Tennessee.
Thanks for this, John, fascinating stuff.
I was thinking of the civilians in Gaza while reading this letter. I thought that was HCR's reason for reminding us of the massacre at this time.
Brilliant Gloria! I was just puzzling over that as I scrolled through the comments. I think you must be on target there! Even if HCR was not aiming for that analogy it seems remarkably apt, especially the parts about bunches of wary and frightened soldiers and their leaders seeking vengeance for having been so totally caught off guard!
The massacre of 2023-2024 is already in progress. In Gaza. Americans are so wrapped up in themselves that they refuse to see the MASSACRE which we are paying for and supporting with every ounce of political strength we have. If I were a fundamentalist Christian, I would predict that our freedom will end in November, 2024, as punishment for our massacre of 2,000,000 Gazans.
Your post is neither true nor accurate. The barbaric slaughter occurred on 10/7/24. Gazans are being used to shield criminals from justice while US aid is stolen by the criminals.
So the probable slaughter of 2,000,000 Gazans is not barbaric?
No ,it is how the Muslim world makes a living while resisting any and all challenges to their tyrannical religious governments.
I can't Imagine any so called government paying their citizens to terrorize their neighbors, especially with US taxpayers money.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund?wprov=sfti1
"Our massacre of 2,000,000 Gazans."
On what planet do you see that occurring? It's neither happening nor going to happen on this one. That thousands of noncombatant Gazans are dying in the war is sad beyond measure, but also inevitable, because Hamas loves to hide among them.
All Hamas needs to do to end this war is utter two words: 'We surrender." Perhaps aim your ire at the proper target, not Americans or Israelis.
This wars has dragged out for 75 years. I see the solution for Palestine under the Abraham accords. https://www.state.gov/the-abraham-accords/#:~:text=We%20support%20science%2C%20art%2C%20medicine,East%20and%20around%20the%20world.
Unless the US support of genocide ends, there is NO solution. See "The Hundred Years' War on Palestine" by Rashid Khalidi.
As respect to you I am watching Khalid's https://youtu.be/wH8Ip1cvlRY?si=ccMal8IrVMw-f1qy
The 1st 5 minutes confirms my opinion that this is yet another history of atrocities that cannot justify acts like what just happened on 10/7.
Hamas should have surrendered on 10/8 rather than turn their people into martyrs. That's what's appalling. Israel has an obligation to the world to force Hamas surrender and no one should expect Isreal to lose any more soldiers to do it, as the murderers hide among the population of willing martyrs. May they enjoy their f-king virgins.
And so it goes. A people defening themselves against ethnic cleansing are the bad guys while the people doing the mass murder are the good guys.
What a load of hooey. There was ZERO "ethnic cleansing" of Palestinians in Gaza. None. The only "ethnic cleansing" in Gaza was of Jews, who were unilaterally pulled out of Gaza years ago BY ISRAEL to make Gaza entirely Palestinian. Israel said to Palestinians when the Jewish population transfer was complete, "You said you wanted us gone. We are. The place is all yours now, entirely Palestinian. Enjoy."
Gazans promptly wrecked the thriving commercial base Israel left behind, depriving Gaza of critical revenue generators. Gazans elected the terror group Hamas as its government. Gazans cheered as Hamas launched more than 50,000 rockets at Israel. Gazans stood by without comment as Hamas raped, tortured, dismembered, and murdered more than 1,000 innocent Israelis on Oct. 7--baking a baby in an oven a particularly Hamasian touch.
Hundreds of non-Hamas Gazans joined the murder spree that day, after hundreds of other Gazans, whom Israel had granted permission to work in Israel, provided Hamas critical intelligence on where to attack, kidnap, and kill their employers and coworkers. A new poll by a respected Palestinian polling organization shows that 70+ percent of Gazans approved of Hamas's slaughter, think it should happen again, and that Israel must disappear because Palestine cannot live next to a Jewish state.
Yet you have the gall to paint Israel's response as "mass murder" and "genocide." Did you praise Osame bin Laden as a heroic freedom fighter for 9-11, too?
Do you accuse the accuser in all your self serving arguments? Did you pick that trick up from Trump?
Palestine uses donations from UN to pay terrorists. It's how they support themselves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund?wprov=sfti1
Don't forget the US alone supported Kosovo from ethnic cleansing and genocide. Maybe your characterization needs adjustment.
No good guys here