But we must try. Those carried away by the trouble makers may well take pause and hear this message. A very inspired speech in my view. I too want to be hopeful that many will hear it. It’s often a ripple effect, like s stone dropped into water.
I suspect that significant amounts of misinformation and fomentation come from Russian, Chinese, and Iranian sources. They have at least two goals: to distract us from Ukraine and to divide us, to set us against each other so we can not accomplish anything.
As are the republican extremists of today. This is a multi-pronged problem that we must deal with and educate people. Chuck Schumer speaking out like this is very educational for those who need to utilize Critical Thinking Skills around the world and not allow gaslighting, a totalitarian tactic to divide, to be thrust upon us.
Thank you, Sophia. My sentiments exactly. One can state this idea without supporting Hamas or Bibi and those in Israel who knew a year before about this attack and dismiss with what can be only called hubris.
There is something vile about all extremists on all sides. Just as there is a rise in anti-Semitism there is an increase in sentiment against Arabs. Hamas wants to wipe out Israel and the Israeli government wants to obliterate Hamas and each side has its reasons.
As far as knowing a year in advance and dismissing it as fantasy, I don't buy it. How can you be one of the world's most sophisticated intelligence agencies and poo-poo this information about your gravest threat. I think they knew that Hamas was going to attack, as they regularly do, but that it wasn't going to be as bad, then seize Hamas's attack as the reason to destroy Gaza.
The Palestinian and Jewish people get along with each other. To watch the destructions those in charge are creating is truly hard to digest....
Attacking people for no other reason than who the are. It is a sad reality around the world for many peoples.
Of course, before one can get people to do that to eachother, they establish that BEING the reviled person puts him or her into a category of persons deserving of our hatred. Inherently « vermin, » as one of our erstwhile leaders recently said of people who disagree with him.
Once you get people to think every single individual in a group is the same as every other, you have established the basis for bigotry.
The little boy who was stabbed by his landlord was killed for being a member of a group, not for any other reason. Attacked simply for being who he was. Bigotry.
If I disagree with how Israel has long been treating Palestinians, especially under Netanyahu, that is legitimate, but it is a political opinion. So many Jews in Israel themselves disapprove of and resist that treatment. One cannot hold all Jews, in Israel or anywhere, accountable for the Netanyahu policies.
How I judge Netanyahu.and the ultra-right, anti-Palestinian behavior in Israel has no bearing on how I judge Hamas, which has shown itself to be inhumanly cruel and monstrous. NOT a friend of the Palestinian people, but a predator, using them for sick power. The October attack was against innocents, not against the leadership,or the militant forces in Israel. It was against all Jews, and children and nonJews, in retaliation for the policies of some in the govenment.… bigotry, and collective punishment. Sick.
It brought retaliation against all Palestinians, including children and nonPalestinians in Gaza, and Hamas continued to use its own people as shields. Sick and wrong!
As is the utter devastation unleashed on Gaza, with Israel’s excuse that it is « self-defense. » The collective punishment of innocents in Gaza is not OK.
The Israeli military must go after Hamas, not innocent Palestinians.
Innocent children are never legitimate to attack. If Hamas were using innocent Israeli children for shields, would Netanyahu bomb their hospital?
I asked a prominent Israeli peace activist if Netanyahu even wanted the hostages back, since his bombing had been relentless for weeks. He said yes, if only to save Netanyahu’s own skin.
I take offense at the actions of and longterm policies of Netanyahu and his cronies. I am heartbroken by the pain and destruction and blood they have spilled in the West Bank and East Jerusalem and Gaza even before this « war. »
I am disgusted and completely reject radicalized, vicious Islamist factions like ISIS and Hamas, every bit as much.
As a dear friend had said to,me long ago, when Israelii Jews and Palestinians were talking to each other and trying to draw close to a way for all to live in peace on the land between the river snd the sea, People need to resist bigotry, always. And they must be careful not to circle their wagons when things get tough, shutting out their friends as well as their enemies.
I personally am pro-Jewish and Pro-Palestinian. I want desperately for peace, security and decency for so many deserving people!!!
Divide and conquer has been a military strategy for centuries.
Current application: Encourage Americans to turn against their Jewish countrymen. Spread conspiracy myths (Jews control banks and therefore the economy, etc) to fan flames of distrust and resentment. Don't support gun regulations after a radical shoots up a synagogue.
Agree with Stanley Goodman. Goal is to distract and divide us. We cannot allow that to happen.
Misinformation can be homegrown as well. It is for all who see the opportunity in crisis. The whole world sees these events differently, which is why it’s so easy to manipulate.
JaneDough56, agreed, different people see events differently. My point is that some are intentionally manipulating us for their own ends, and we should be aware.
I would encourage us to not use the the softening idea of "misinformation." In American it is pure, intentional propaganda and gaslighting of vulnerable American people who now are in a cult. We need to use the correct words to describe this authoritarian/cult/fascist tactic and work hard to prove it is meant to sow chaos, fear, division and brainwashing. That is very different than just some "misinformation" in my book. The far right extremists know exactly what they are doing and are often funded by hostile domestic and foreign entities who want our democracy to fail. It is all about manipulation, power and control.
I agree. The assault on our democratic system is intentional. This is accomplished by suckering in the gullible who have no ability, or very little, to think critically so that they can realize that they are being used. Trump's success at grifting is proof of this naivete.
Today, the entity which ‘controls everything’ is the corporate community, the corporations. Taxpayers who are bolting both political parties are angry at corporations. Taxpayers bailed corporations out of bankruptcy under Presidents Bush2, Obama1 & 2, the indicted (potentially treasonous) former 45th president, and Biden1. Quantitatively, America’s corporations get a free ride; it’s called “free enterprise” & ‘free trade’. The new 15% corporate minimum income tax bill hasn’t moved in the Senate, which we are reminded is completely controlled by Dems. Again, I quote Dr. John Dewey who stumbled across the problem, “Government is the shadow cast by big business.” I add, “Both political parties provide the ‘shadow’. There is a solution. Study how Finland has revisi
I understand what power that corporations have and how they do get a free ride. I don't agree with that at all. I stated what long has been a belief about Jews, stemming perhaps from the time in Europe where only they could be bankers. I stated that it was a false idea. We are not Finland and right now we have a great big problem called death star and his minions. They have to be stopped and if we don't, we won't have a chance for any Finland like reforms.
When I was a kid growing up in Texas, I thought that the hatred of Jews by Christians is because the Jews killed Christ. Actually, in Acts 5:30, it was the Sanhedrin that killed Jesus by hanging him on a tree. [That's one of the ways the Jewish religious officials killed heretics and apostates, along with stoning.] At this point in my life, I simply don't get it, the antisemitism. I truly don't.
Yes, the Jewish elite religious officials using the Romans as cover. I did a long paper on anti Jewish sentiment from the Romans to the First Crusade. The Romans were tolerant and gave Jews special privileges and the Jews rebelled anyway, the one thing Romans did not tolerate. Enter Titus and the destruction of the Temple and sending Jews elsewhere. Both Christians and Muslims expected Jews to convert and they didn't. There were large communities of both Christians and Jews in Saudi Arabia at the time of Mohammed and what the Jewish communities offered was criticism. But for a while Islam was much easier on Jews than Christians. Jews were isolated in European cities and often these areas were prosperous because Jews could be bankers and Christians couldn't. They also made excellent scapegoats for rulers or when things were not going well. Mobs went in and destroyed and looted Jewish areas. During the First Crusade, when the crusaders got to Germany, they told Jews to convert or die and were surprised when some (many?) chose to die. Then there were their most Christian majesties, Ferdinand and Isabella, who triumphed over Muslims and then threw Jews out. Any Jew who had converted to Christianity was also suspect.
Actually, the Sanhedrin was the Jewish "show" court that the Romans allowed to function so that commerce, etc, could continue under their (Roman's) occupation. It is my understanding Jesus was crucified, which is a Roman form of punishment. I don't suppose we will ever know what really happened.
Fair enough but America has its own sources of disinformation and hatred. Every minority group has been attacked and denigrated by Americans over the last 7 or 8 years. Republicans refuse to condemn it and in fact support it by at least failing to speak out. A big percentage of American say they are going to vote for a man with a rich history of prejudice while complaining about being a victim. Being fair is not that hard but we seem incapable. My heart breaks.
🙏🏼 Hope. However, Inmate # P01135809 the bloviator of lies, is not really human, he is purely a soul-less corporation and wannabe dictator and proven cult figure. Americans, we have seen, are mesmerized by the rich and famous, who can get away with any kind of despicable behavior and still be voted (rather "installed") as POTUS. Capitalism is out of control and we do need to rein it in. We have the power How and Where We Choose To or Not to Spend Our Money.
What it means is that we need to be involved as never before and donate more money as never before. We can't let this be our Waterloo. We need activism at all levels, letter writing, texting, canvassing, voter registration, phone calling and more.
The Atlantic has an article that I received today: Roge Karma's article, "Why Americans abandoned the greatest economy in history," 12/3/2023 is an excellent read, but it ignores a core reason as to why our economy now is what it is: the propaganda campaign launched by the ultra-conservative think tanks in league with the oligarchs such as the Koch Brothers. This phenomenon of the oligarchs' use of the media that spewed volumes of propaganda using wedge issues such as abortion, gay rights, immigration and civil rights issue to manipulate the white Christian Protestants to vote against their own best economic and social issues is well covered in Thomas Frank's book, "What's the Matter with Kansas," published in 2004. The validity of this position is verified in the study by two Univ. of Kansas professors, David Norman Smith and Eric Hanley, entitled "The Anger Games: Who Voted for Donald Trump in the 2016 Election, and Why?" published in the February 2018 issue of Critical Sociology, a peer-reviewed journal. Their findings? Trump's voters support him because he shares their prejudices: racism, misogyny, antisemitism, homophobia and xenophobia, to name several. These people continue to support Republican politicians who keep supporting the ultra wealthy to their own detriment. Their feelings and support are so intense that they continue to support Trump even though he is a criminally indicted dishonest grifter who will destroy what rights they have left if he is given another chance.
We are, in fact, involved in a second Civil War, with the Oligarchs using racism, etc. to increase their already substantial power and control.
He’s certainly effective with his audience, but I suspect he’d flop if Fox and others hadn’t build huge news echo chambers and propaganda systems hosting Russian, Chinese, Iranian, and other content. There used to be enforcement of laws limiting the reach of media owners. A trusted Hispanic news network, Univision, was taken over by a MAGA associate of Jared Kushner; now it’s a pro-Trump source shifting Hispanic voters across the US.
Due respect to you, Joanne, for your understandable lament, I agree with Pat that we must try. So I'm going to do my best by posting Heather's newsletter in as many Twitter and FB accounts as I can. I'm also going to find someone on Tik Tok to get this out to the younger folks. Thank you Heather for already doing the leg work!
Hi Chaplain Terry Nicholetti--Also with respect, my lament that Schumer's message won't be heard and understood by the people who need to hear it the most, in no way was meant to imply that we shouldn't try to make them hear it. Many of us having been dedicated to spreading the this message long before his recent speech--and we continue to do so. I don't see any disagreement!
I don't either, Joanne, and I'm so happy to hear from you. I wouldn't be able to "post outside the choir box," (Quoting Pensa_VT below,) if I didn't know there was a solid community within to nurture and sustain all of us workers!
And all of us are messengers of one sort or another – for better or worse, positivity or negativity. UNITY is the priority now, based on common values and messages, or ‘divide and conquer’ strategies will continue to be effective and Democracy will fall.
I’m sorry- is this a democracy? Really? When you tell us we can only vote for Biden? When the Florida Democratic Party has decided that NO ONE ELSE gets to primary against Biden under the democrats? Reeeaallly? Tell me about this democracy we live in.
I’ll tell you about the democracy we live in. We are allowed to love and legally marry someone of our own sex, to take birth control, to get an abortion, to read undoctored history, to fight for our beliefs, to advance ourselves economically, to be a Jew, Brown, Black, White, Muslim, Christian, and so forth. Biden is the choice if you want to keep it.
Well said, Susan. Biden is my choice, no one else comes close to what he and his administration have been able to accomplish for this country or democracy.
But what about the vast number of misinformed and misguided Americans who do not want other Americans, as you put it, to be "allowed to love and legally marry someone of our own sex, to take birth control, to get an abortion, to read undoctored history, to fight for our beliefs, to advance ourselves economically, to be a Jew, Brown, Black, White, Muslim, Christian, and so forth."? The great flaw in democracy is that such people have a voice, and as the continued existence of the Republican Party proves, a vote as well. But alternative systems are worse, history shows. That is our problem and our challenge.
And here you are proving my point- telling me who to vote for. That wasn’t my question, my question was how is it democratic to not allow anyone to primary? Because you’re afraid that Joe might loose and whoever clenches the nomination will loose to Trump. I understand your logic. Please stop insulting people’s intelligence by trying to tell us how to vote. Maybe educate yourself on the issue which is why is the Democratic Party cheering on an active genocide?
You’re in complete control on who you choose to vote for. We do still have the freedom of speech to point out the likely consequences of a Republican getting more votes than Joe Biden. If Biden loses in 2024, tffg has told us they will either kill us “vermin” or lock us up. People didn’t believe tffg when he said he could kill someone on 5th Avenue and get away with it. Then he did kill people on Capitol Hill, and years later we’re still waiting to see if he’ll get away with it. Your false and persistent accusations that folks here are bullying you to vote a certain way are very troll-like.
But who knows maybe you actually don’t hear what is actually being said to you again and again, because you have your firmly fixed belief that you are being persecuted simply because people disagree with you.
The political parties have the right, as private organizations, to field the candidates they want. That said, if you want to vote for Dean Phillips (or Bullwinkle, for that matter), write him in. And in claiming that the Dems are "cheering on...genocide" you are deliberately ignoring about 20 pounds of nuance.
You may vote for anyone you would like to...that is democracy but to judge the Democratic party as a whole based on the state of Florida may be a mistake. In 70's, 80's and 90's Ralph Nader ran for president. People had the right to vote for him. He had NO chance of winning, only disrupting in the name of a cause. Was the cause just, perhaps. But the point is that in our present system and place where we are with a clear and present danger being the front runner on the GQP side, what would be the upside of Biden debating anyone in Florida?
To state that the Democratic Party cheering on active genocide is just incorrect and when words like "genocide" are used, it gets people's dander up!
I agree with Susan, you are throwing a tantrum. If you are going to toss veiled insults like "maybe educate yourself" then I'd suggest that you open your dictionary and look up the difference between "loose" and "lose" to start.
I know that sounds rude, which is not the intention. Generally, people on this forum are pretty civil. However, I do believe you crossed the line in the sand and I believe it is best to gently point that out to you.
What's wrong with someone expressing who they want people to vote for? Am I insulting people's intelligence by placing a sign in my front yard declaring my chosen candidate?
Nope Not telling you to vote for Biden or anyone else for that matter. What people are presenting is what will happen if death star and the Rs somehow prevail. They have said very clearly what their intent is. For me that is enough.
No one is telling you who to vote for. Or even requiring you to vote. This isn't Afghanistan, where you have to dip your index finger in indelible purple dye.
Cue the dramatics. If you don't want to vote for the Democratic candidate, then vote for the other guy. Or stay home. Either is a viable option. But stop crying victim.
The Democratic Party decided that Biden is its standard-bearer. It has that right. If you want to vote for someone else, form your own party and nominate a candidate. America gives you the freedom to do that.
"Active genocide," my ass. If Israel wanted to genocide Palestinians, it would have dropped 50 thermobaric bombs on Gaza on Day One and killed everything including the grass. Or dynamited the Mediterranean Sea into the Hamas tunnels, drowning everyone below and collapsing millions of Gazas above into the mud to die. Genocide would have been the far faster and easier choice.
Instead, we're at Day 58, with Israeli farmers and accountants called into military service to move inch by inch through those tunnels, risking their lives because Israel chose NOT to genocide Palestinians.
Voting for Biden is our best strategy to keep our democracy. Please don’t confuse it with anything other than that. But it’s also the best choice by far than anyone else in this moment in time.
GUH. How many times must we repeat that voting for a candidate is a chess move, not a Valentine (Rebecca Solnit, thank you for this slogan, which has really caught on). Look at the board, people!!!
I say that because in my long life I have learned that the priority is to keep the vermin out. Yes, I said vermin, because he who calls others that is the worst example himself.
tricia, OF COURSE you can vote for someone else!; even write-in a name! THAT is what democracy is about. The issue remains how to get your vote to count and what you want to accomplish with that vote?
You are able to vote alone and in private - who you vote for is YOUR business - no one is forcing you in any way - THATS democracy! We all have our own opinions - who we CHOOSE to select is our own business. THATS democracy.
Please explain. I think I'm missing what you consider a democracy -- what would have to change in order for the U.S. to become a democracy, in your opinion? (I'm not attacking you, trish, I'm really curious.)
I don’t disagree with you, tricia, but my concern is this: If a majority of Americans choose accuracy of definitions (or any other point of accuracy) over unity, the democracy we have now will likely become a dictatorship under a political party that wishes to more ‘permanently’ control us. ‘Divide and conquer’ is a very effective strategy. It’s effectively working against us. The only way to counter it is to unify into a supermajority with one focus — “Save Democracy”. Once that’s accomplished, improvement of democracy can - and should, happen too.
Yes. The 2024 Election is the least choice we have had in this country. And that choice is really simple because of one fact. A party of extremists have gone totally rogue and want to destroy our democracy and our rights.
If you are educated to the serious crisis we are in here in America today, the choice is to vote for Democracy (Biden) or Fascism (Inmate # P01135809 or whomever they decide to install). If one chooses to vote for Fascism, it could likely be the last vote you will ever have in your lifetime and our democracy will fail.
But you are free to vote this year! Many of us here would encourage Everyone to really take 2024 seriously and vote as if your life depends upon it. I encourage people who just want to waste time debating to use critical thinking skills rather than engaging in mental masturbation of whether or not this is a democracy. It will not matter one iota if you cannot keep it in 2024. Choose well, I say.
Tricia: democracy is on the line. President Biden, a person of obvious good will, with the confidence of Europe and beyond and the diplomatic experience of years is our best possibility of retaining it both here in America and in Europe. Democracy is an idea, held by some people and some countries. As Christine Todd Whitman, former cabinet member and Republican Governor, is saying: there is no longer a Republican Party, it’s a cult, and it is President Biden is holding the country together.
Democracy is not perfect. So, what’s new? Politics is the art of the possible. Elections are hardly ever choices between good and evil (although next November looks likely to be one of those rare cases). The choice is more often between the lesser of two evils (although, again, 2024 looks to be an exception). If you are looking for a perfect candidate or perfect democracy, you’ll never go to the polls again, no matter how long you live.
Churchill for sure. I think it was something like "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all others that have been tried," but you've got the essence.
Where did I say that I expect perfection? Where?I asked how it is democratic to refuse other people an opportunity to primary against Joe. Why would you respond with democracy isn’t perfect? That’s such an odd take away. Why not- gee why does Florida get to decide who I want to primary?
What criteria do you think the Democratic Party of Florida should use to determine who is on their primary ballot? I can think of a few myself, I was just wondering what you might like.
i feel a big hurdle us to address is our knee jerk reaction that an issue is black/white (no pun intended) Sure it may be annoying that FL (and others) may be keeping other Dems off the ballot. Annoying as it may be, in this moment in time, the best plan is to limit the options to Biden. Now, think beyond that about the implications of dividing the vote against the other opposition candidate. The RNC, Russia, China and many others who wish to weaken the USA are happy to contribute to the disarray. When we get frustrated and even angry - EYES ON THE PRIZE.
I don’t disagree with you, tricia, but my concern is this: If a majority of Americans choose accuracy of definitions (or any other point of accuracy) over unity, the democracy we have now will likely become a dictatorship under a political party that wishes to more ‘permanently’ control us. ‘Divide and conquer’ is a very effective strategy. It’s effectively working against us. The only way to counter it is to unify into a supermajority with one focus — “Save Democracy”. Once that’s accomplished, improvement of democracy can - and should, happen too.
I do understand that and we did get Joe elected in 20 with that hope yet, one by one our rights are stripped away and now Joe is fully embracing Zionism which is actually an extension of white supremacy. Unfortunately we have turns into the country where the political leaders think they know best and have convinced the middle of that as well.
I hear you, tricia, and I agree with you in part and disagree with you in part. (That’s an unmatched benefit of democracy.) But none of that is of the highest priority right now. It may feel good in the here and now to argue and vent about differing convictions, but that approach is feeding the ‘divide and conquer’ strategy.
Saving Democracy is the highest priority. Arguing and venting about an increasing myriad of issues is, at this point, feeding the ‘divide and conquer’ cancer.
Each of us makes a choice, in every interaction we have with others — will we choose to spread the cancer or stop feeding it?
Tricia, please re read the speech given by Senator Schumer and referenced in today’s letter from HCR. This is a crisis for the American Jewish Community. They hear the thundering echoes of their entire history - flight , death and destruction. We should have risen up in disgust and scorn and banishment when, after those cretins marched in Charlottesville with their tiki torches from Walmart, chanting “ the Jews will not replace us “.and the duly elected President of the United States said that there were good people on both sides . And he may be coming again . I am frightened and I am not Jewish.
Something like 61% of the Jews in Israel are Mizrachi--roots in North Africa, the Middle East and Asia. This is not white supremacy. You've shown yourself for what you are. An anti-semite.
Not engaging with you any more. You're not worth my time.
We tell you that voting for Biden is the only way to save our democratic institutions from autocracy in 2024. That is freedom of speech. You are entirely free to choose who you vote for and that is democracy. Successful people work with what they have to create what they want, keeping in mind that they are only one of over 300,000,000 million souls. It’s a delusion that you can create something out of thin air. The people that make up the Democratic Party have been working it for a very long time, like Joe Biden, a lifetime.
This has been the case forever has it not? The incumbent if he/she desires to continue, unless there are extraordinary circumstances, is going to be the nominee. The DNC has made mistakes in the past - I don't deny it. And it might be that a better candidate is out there. But the DNC recognizes, as we all should, that there are only two choices that matter in the upcoming election. One - do we want to continue the democracy? And two - do we want to risk that democracy to a would-be dictator? Squabbling among Democrats about how to conduct our world view pales in comparison to those two choices. Given that, who gives our party the best odds at winning the election. Most feel it is the current Biden/Harris administration. Hard to argue otherwise.
This is an important point you raise that I hope Heather will address. There is no democratic electoral process right now. Biden running unopposed seems to be the official Democratic Party line. Media follows suit. That's why Marianne Williamson gets no air time. So thank you for raising this. Your comment below about Palestine is another matter. That statement is not a call to end occupation but a call for the obliteration of Israel. The Jews are not colonizers.
I’m sorry but you have to educate yourself from the people who are actually using it not what the Zionist agenda wants you to believe. Israel actually calls for the destruction of Palestine, daily.
I have been using Florida as an example for this as well. They are banning books about the truth- about the real history of this country. It is the same thing Israel did to the Palestinians, they destroy the Palestinian narrative and turn them into “human animals” so they can justify genocide. It’s not opinion it’s fact. Please read books by real historians, like Ilan Pape or Rashid Khalidi even listen to what Gabor Mate a Holocaust survivor, has to say. Just listen and put aside that this is about destroying Jews. Because it’s not. Palestine has the right to exist and we have to atone for our part upholding a racist ideology- that’s what Zionism is- at the expense of the indigenous people of Palestine.
Please go educate yourselves on Zionism- tell me it’s not racist.
Tricia, I doubt you are sorry. Your tone is patronizing, though. Again, these antisemitic tropes and pat blanket statements are dangerous. As Chuck Schumer said in his historic speech, we must call them out when we hear them. To be honest with you, they terrify me. And I’m not being hyperbolic. Before 10/7 and the response of many who I thought were allies, I could not fully grasp what my holocaust survivor relatives and friends have tried to convey about their experiences. I bore witness and thought, I’m so relieved that can’t happen again. Now I feel the weight of their experiences in a new way. Or an old way.
For space, I’m going to keep this simple. Too simple, yes, as the Middle East is a most complicated place. Maybe we can agree that Netanyahu and his ilk have not helped matters and he should probably be in prison (I say probably because he deserves his day in court). Seeing your reading list, you might broaden your scope.
Israel doesn’t call for the destruction of Palestine daily. Israel is not a monolith. There are many voices. Some of the voices for peaceful co-existence with Palestine were slaughtered, tortured, raped, kidnapped and whose horror was gleefully videotaped and sent to their families to augment the savagery. And then there has been the justification - the celebration of this barbarity in American streets and harassment of American Jews. Where is your outrage? Do you think Hamas is an armed resistance organization and Israel bears full responsibility for what happened on 10/7?
Zionism is not a racist ideology. It is one of the most successful liberation and self-determination movements the world has ever seen. After nearly half of the world Jewish population was murdered, a haven was established from the periodic persecution, expulsion and extermination Jews have experienced over millennia, the modern state of Israel. An Arab country was also to be established but rather than accept shared land with 2 states, 5 surrounding nations invaded the nascent Israel. What ensued was war and war is hell. It is heartbreaking and awful that Palestinians, Armenians and others fled or were expelled from their homes.
Of course, the Palestinians have a right to self-determination and a homeland. Their leadership does a lot to prevent this. Mousa Abu Marzouk says the tunnels are there to protect Hamas fighters, not civilians. He says the UN is meant to protect the civilians, refugees, as he calls them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ry8V4ppJBk
This is the liberation movement of the Palestinian People? Why are the Palestinians of Gaza refugees? Gaza was ‘liberated’ of Jews in 2005. Why hasn’t Hamas cared for its citizenry with the billions of dollars it’s received and built a country rather than tunnels? What’s been more important to Hamas?
Lastly, when I hear college students ask why don’t the Jews go back where they came from, I wonder... shall my son’s Iranian Jewish friend from day school go back there? Ask Talia Dror.
Shall my Yemeni Jewish friends go ‘home?’ Or Libyan Jews, should they identify as eternal refugees, longing to return? Why aren’t these questions you ask yourself? The Arab world is effectively judenrein. Why?
Israel’s existence is essential to Jewish survival. Comments like yours just drive that home for me.
Tell that to the Palestinians that live in the West Bank who have lost their land and access to their crops by people who have been allowed to settle there and take the land. It reminds me of what happened to the Native Americans.
I share your concerns about some of the settlement building in the disputed territories. Not helpful for finding peace or building trust, for sure. Since you mention Native Americans, if you own property in the US, are you prepared to return it?
Ahhh Samantha, how else does one explain their acquiescence to their own far right political faction which seems not only to tolerate but actively support and arm settlements and settlers in the West Bank contrary to UN convention and international law?
How does one explain that Trump became President and a small, Far Right cabal has so much power in the House of Representatives? That we treated immigrants on the border like animals and separated children from their parents, keeping no records? That we allowed a kleptocracy to try to take Native and public lands? That multiple states with Gerrymandered legislatures have effectively outlawed abortion, turning women into second class citizens? Surely this reflects the politics, will and aspirations of the people of the United States as a whole.
You don't get it. No one is telling you that you can only vote for Biden. You can vote for the purple people eater if you want to. What we all understand and probably the D party in Florida is that we cannot afford a split vote because of the true danger to democracy that death star and his minions are. I wish we were not in this situation and I wish we had some other options. But we are where we are.
Tricia: The blunders and machinations of the Democratic Party are not the result of the government not being a democracy. They are the result of the Democratic Party leadership not being democratic.
Absolutely Annie. All things considered, awareness of our own ignorance and bigotry, now and in our history, is more difficult, and ultimately more important, than awareness of the ability of others to amplify it.
Agreed Annie. I thank HCR for publishing this. It has helped me to sort out my feelings about this issue. Im grateful Senate Majority Leader Schumer took advantage of his bully pulpit to remind someone like me, -clarify for me- this horrendous situation.
Thoughtful words are crucial at this time of turmoil, discord, suffering, war and care for one another.
'WASHINGTON (Reuters) -U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin delivered perhaps his strongest remarks to date on Saturday over Israel's need to protect civilians in Gaza, calling them the center of gravity in Israel's war with Hamas and warning over the risks of their radicalization.'
'Austin, in remarks to the Reagan National Defense Forum in Simi Valley, California, said he has personally pushed Israeli leaders to avoid civilian casualties, to shun "irresponsible rhetoric" and to prevent violence by settlers in the West Bank.'
'He also said he's pressed Israel to dramatically expand Gaza's access to humanitarian aid, adding that he expected more deliveries of aid "in the days ahead."
"In this kind of a fight, the center of gravity is the civilian population. And if you drive them into the arms of the enemy, you replace a tactical victory with a strategic defeat," 'Austin said, drawing on his experience as a four-star general overseeing the battle against Islamic State militants.'
"So I have repeatedly made clear to Israel's leaders that protecting Palestinian civilians in Gaza is both a moral responsibility and strategic imperative."
'Israel has sworn to annihilate Palestinian militant group Hamas following Hamas' Oct. 7 rampage in southern Israel, in which Israel says 1,200 people were killed and more than 200 taken hostage.'
'The Gaza health ministry says more than 15,000 Palestinians have been killed since the start of the war, with at least 193 Palestinians killed just since Friday's collapse of a truce between Israel and Hamas.'
'Austin's remarks came as Israeli warplanes and artillery bombarded the enclave on Saturday.'
'The United States has rushed military assistance to Israel, including air defenses and other munitions.'
'Austin pledged that the United States would stand by Israel's side, noting Israel's obligation to respond after Hamas' Oct. 7 attack and calling the Palestinian militant group a' "cruel enemy."
"The United States will remain Israel's closest friend in the world. Our support for Israel's security is non-negotiable," 'he told an audience of prominent U.S. lawmakers, national security officials and defense industry executives. Austin also renewed U.S. calls for a two-state solution to resolve the Israel-Palestinian conflict.'
"Without a horizon of hope, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will remain an engine of instability and insecurity and human suffering," he said.'
'As the Israel-Hamas war escalates tensions in the region, the Pentagon has been wrestling with wave after wave of attacks against U.S. troops by Iran-backed groups who blame the United States for Israel's actions in Gaza. Austin accused Iran of "raising tensions" and noted recent U.S. air strikes in response.'
"We will not tolerate attacks on American personnel. And so these attacks must stop," he said.' (Reuters)
(Reporting by Phil Stewart; editing by Jonathan Oatis) This article was copied in full.
"In this kind of a fight, the center of gravity is the civilian population. And if you drive them into the arms of the enemy, you replace a tactical victory with a strategic defeat," 'Austin said, drawing on his experience as a four-star general overseeing the battle against Islamic State militants.'
"So I have repeatedly made clear to Israel's leaders that protecting Palestinian civilians in Gaza is both a moral responsibility and strategic imperative."
It appears to me that sometimes violence must be confronted with violence when no other remedy is practical. Hitler had to be confronted with military force. Homicidal terrorists are a clear and present danger for which the use of force is entirely justified. That said, human violence is our specie's greatest enemy, and yet the same mistakes seem to be made century after century, decade after decade.
Steven Pinker and others have argued for all the violent horror we see today, the past was worse, even more cruel and pervasively violent, which I think may well be true, but yet our tools of violence have become more insidious and destructive. The players change with each generation but the "cycle of violence" seems keep momentum even though it ebbs and flows. Every effort to dial back violence (of many kinds) as much as is practical enhances our specie's chances of survival and the prospects of lives worth living. I fear that civilization will unravel if we don't.
My own personal challenge in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is I that am 63. Although it is true I have not riveted my attention on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict over the years, I have followed the news of various failures of the two state solution, especially when the PLO was working with Israel and the Clinton administration in the 1990's.
To my own brain's perception of all these years of news around the issue, it does seem that Israel has always been slowly expanding their occupation of Palestinian lands and, in the last 10 years, has amped up imprisonment of Palestinians, often for no reason, and without clear due process.
It is also my perception that the USA has ably aided and abetted Palestinian displacement by insuring that the Israeli military police apparatus always have mountains of modern weapons and plenty of money to build jails.
Now? Hamas has engaged in one of the worst attacks on Civilians of my life. Only the attacks of the United States on civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq is/was worse. Well, Russia's attack on civilians in Ukraine is also equal. Putin must have had a phone call with Bush II before he got started.
To me? It looks like Israel is not so much attempting to "root out Hamas". It looks more like Netanyahu is trying to bomb his way to stay in power forever. Much as George W. Bush was attempting to get a second term in spite of ignoring the CIA's warnings of an impending attack by Osama Bin Laden.
I think Netanyahu feels that Israeli's will be happy about the wanton destruction of the Palestinian people and their homes and schools and hospitals and sad way of life.
To me it looks like a weak man, with no morals and no plan, who is also responsible for sleeping at the Security switch in Israel for the last 10 years, is trying to keep his job by showing that he can kill more Palestinians than anyone ever before.
I wish I did not see it this way. I wish I could see the Israeli side with more sympathy. But, having now studied for nearly a month, it seems to me that, starting with the Balfour Declaration, and using weapons from the USA, Israel has been moving Palestinians from their homes and leaving them with no place to go, no jobs, no education and no future.
I am NOT anti-Semitic. I agree with Schumer strongly. I feel no antipathy to any religion at all. Everyone gets to believe whatever they want. If someone believes a green rabbit will lift their soul to heaven after a life of eating carrots? I am OK with that.
However, I am not in favor of the steady displacement, occupation, imprisonment, and racism that Israeli's show toward the human beings who call themselves Palestinians but look EXACTLY like Israeli's.
Human. Looking for ways to feel superior to others, be it religion, caste, skin color, or whatever is just dumb.
You have said what I have been thinking for many years. I agree with Schumer and believe Jewish Americans are threatened with violence but when the news shows the absolute destruction of Palestinian cities, it is inconceivable to me that any attempt is being made to stop this and to stop the killing of the Palestinian citizens. I feel it has been a very lop-sided endeavor for many years with the Israelis seeming to want all the land with nothing left over for the Palestinians. And the United States has contributed a great deal to fund the Israeli war machine.
Mike S., your comment makes many points. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like most regional conflicts, is complex. I agree that Netanyahu has chosen to sacrifice national and regional wellbeing for his own. In other words, he, his coalition partners, and most of the settlements must go. In 2005, when Israel left Gaza, they forced Israelis there to leave and to shutter their businesses, so such things have been done before. It is easy to blame Israel, with the most powerful military in the region, for wanton killing of Palestinians, but I suggest we should be aware of our own biases (e.g., favoring the underdog) and, pardon me, ignorance. There is so much about this war we don’t know.
In the bigger picture, imagine the stress of Israelis: sending their children into required military service where lives are really at risk. Year after year, generation after generation. Imagine their sense of hopelessness when dreams of peace went nowhere, like when Arafat rejected Begin’s offer to return ~97% of the land won in 1967.
At the same time, we must be aware of the anger and bitterness felt by Palestinians whose family members have been murdered and family lands stolen by settlers.
So there have been severe leadership failures on both sides, with regular citizens paying the price.
HISTORY: Do you know that Jerusalem’s population in the later 1800s was mostly Jewish? Many Arab and Muslim countries of the region, e.g., Jordan and Saudi Arabia, were established by the British in the 1920s, after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, so they’re barely older than Israel. And one more fact: similar numbers of Jews and Muslims were made refugees c.1948. We hear about Palestinian refugees, but not about the Jews who were forced out of Muslim nations then.
Bottom Line: This is complex and the result of failures on all sides. “Who’s right and who’s wrong” become difficult or impossible to answer when we know the facts.
Not just Israeli people - but thousands of Jews from all over the Middle East and North Africa. Recommended book: UPROOTED:How 3000 Years of Jewish Civilisation in the Arab World Vanished Overnight by Lyn Julius. You can find many talks by Lyn Julius on YouTube.
I am currently reading A Line in The Sand: The Anglo-French Struggle for The Middle East: 1914-1948 by James Barr. It gives the history of the region going back a LONG time.
I’m afraid I have to agree with you. I’m 64 and I too remember the decades that efforts were made to create a two-state solution, as I believe it must be for both cultures to survive. People forget that Palestine is populated with Christians and even secular people, alongside the Muslims. And all are just humans. We cannot paint any people with a one-dimensional brush of judgment. I believe Israel could go a long way toward changing hearts and minds just by jettisoning Netanyahu, their chief warmonger. I can easily separate my love for the Jewish people from the destructive actions of the current Israeli government. But I’ve been around long enough to understand that systems and governments engage in and promote war; not people. There is a way clear for us to love our fellow man and mourn the suffering that war and violence brings and still protest the institutions of power that are perpetuating the violence and destruction.
I think Netanyahu's priority is personal power. as is Putin's, as is Trump's. Peace is antithetical to their permission for authroitarian command. Nearly everyone else, including their supporters, suffers.
Table 33: Do you support the solution of establishing one state or two states in the following formats:
Two-State Solution for Two Peoples: 17.2% (WB 13.3%. GS 22.7%)
One-State Solution for Two Peoples: 5.4% (WB 7.7%. GS 2.2%)
A Palestinian State from the River to the Sea: 74.7% (WB 77.7%; GS 70.4%)
(Other 0) Don't know or N/A: 2.7%.
--
I support the maybe 25% of the Palestinians who do NOT want to destroy Israel .
(2) In connection with the dissolution of empires after World War I, the nation-state became an ideal for many. The Jewish people all over the world had for centuries - but intensely since about 1880 - looked to re-create a homeland in their ancentral area. And with European political Zionism, they too wanted a state - even the tiniest of states. A place where they could protect themselves from persecution and violence.
British Foreign Secretary Ernest Bevin wrote in November 1947 in connection with giving up the Mandate for Palestine [my emphasis]: "His Majesty's Government have thus been faced with an irreconcilable conflict of principles. ... . For the Jews the essential point of principle is the creation of a sovereign Jewish State. For the Arabs, the essential point of principle is to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty in any part of Palestine. The discussions of the last month have quite clearly shown that there is no prospect of resolving this conflict by any settlement negotiated between the parties. But if the conflict has to be resolved by arbitrary decision, that is not a decision which His Majesty's Government are empowered as Mandatory to take." < https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/1947-02-18/debates/4f8bc0e9-f2d5-4267-8d07-10707986db6e/PalestineConference(GovernmentPolicy)>
Recently I saw a news segment featuring an interview of an Israeli saying that Israel has a right to 100% of that land. How widespread is this in Israel? I have not seen this subject discussed.
My impression is that it is between 40 and 50% ... still quite a way from the approx. 75% of Palestinians that want it. Note that at least some Israelis who believe that Israel does have that right are also willing - in the name of peace - to forego that right.
I can hate the goals and methods of the Trump Administration and the Republican Party without hating America and Americans. Likewise, I can hate Netanyahu’s leadership, policies and actions without hating Jews.
I learned about the Holocaust when I was 12, just a few years after the Eichmann trial in The Hague. I was given a school assignment to write an essay: “The Holocaust - Could it Happen Again.” I asked my mother “what is the Holocaust?” and she just said “I’ll take you to the library,” dropping me off at the door of the enormous Cleveland Public Library. I asked the librarian “What is the Holocaust?” And she pointed to the card catalog room. I found the cards and their Dewey Decimal numbers led me to a tiny dusty alcove, where I read about horrors that I could not ever have imagined. When my mother picked me up, I was in shock and tears. I wondered out loud, “could this have happened?” Her response: “Some people say so.”
The adults were silent. My mother was a denier.
Clearly we need to assign our children essays like I had to write. Of course I wrote it could never happen again. And of course it has. In Rwanda. The Balkans. Ukraine.
I have never forgotten. I have read hundreds of histories and memoirs. I had always planned to make a pilgrimage to Auschwitz (until my mobility became limited). I support the Jewish people and the Jewish State. But not Netanyahu, whose methods strike me as chillingly reminiscent of the collective punishment by the very Nazis I read about as a 12 year old.
Well said. I had a similar experience but at my small Catholic school library in Jamestown, ND. I couldn't believe it. i couldn't believe no one had mentioned it at home or in school. Later we read "The Diary of Anne Frank' as seniors.
A correction or two (bearing in mind that such corrections are always a secondary matter):
Israeli Jews are all colors and origins (but some have, of course, always been far more equal than others).
Re. your final paragraph, a clear majority of citizens would have thrown out Netanyahu a long time ago if they'd had half a chance—consider the months and months of mass demonstrations against him and the doings of his rump extremist government. But the man clings to power like a leach and has taken advantage of Israel's deeply flawed and irresponsible form of democracy that enables every tail to wag a dog (even when it has come down to tiny Israel wagging the United States of America). He treats everyone, very much including his fellow citizens, as animals to be manipulated... “Everyone” included Hamas, whose leadership has ended up manipulating him and many others.
Underwriting the existence of Israel is one thing, but there soon comes a point at which limitless endorsement loads a heavy weight of responsibility on the protector. Not to say far more.
In all matters concerning Israel/Palestine it is almost impossible to express any view without causing offense to someone. Circumstances could not be more divisive—as a direct consequence of policy, first Israeli, now that of Hamas, which was designed to create the deepest possible divisions. Under the circumstances, it is a common human duty to work for peace, bringing together those who are apparently irreconcilable.
I have shown my view in greater depth in a comment posted some 6 hours ago, beginning with the words: “The horror: those who planned October 7th knew exactly what they were doing and know the consequences now.”
We watch “Fauda” , the Israeli Intelligence series and those guys were obviously not on the job on Oct. 7th unfortunately. Fauda means chaos not the least of which is that all Israelis and Palestinians look totally alike so it is not color that causes the differences here. Years ago we were on a Kibbutz on the Jordanian border. On the Israeli side were melons, tomatoes, apples and cattle in a large shed being sprinkled with water in the Israeli heat and on the Jordanian side nothing but sand and rocks. That was another big difference. The new Israeli’s had transformed the land and the big tech revolution in Israel was yet to come. Not so in the neighboring Arab lands. Lebanon is a failed state as is Syria today. The rest of them just struggle on to provide better lives for their citizens.
The more I read you, Curiosity, the more I feel what you have written and want to apologize for those minor corrections.
What Marge Wherley has written makes a strong impression too.
I met my first deniers in the early 1960s. Perhaps they could not be blamed at the time, they believed what their father told them, and he was a notorious Nazi collaborator who had escaped to Franco's Spain.
In my family, we knew too much. My father's first cousin, an officer in the British army's medical corps, opened up two concentration camps, the first, Fort Breendonk near Antwerp in Belgium, a punishment camp for political prisoners run by psychopaths recruited from German prisons, the second, Bergen Belsen. Some prisoners there had been evacuated from death camps and survived marches, only to die in the typhus epidemic raging in the camp.
We were living in South Africa in 1948 and I was eight years old when I caught sight of some photos of Belsen, but could not understand. These explain, however, what made my mother take me aside and speak to me solemnly, telling me never to forget her words.
"We are," she said, "all children of the same God. We are brothers and sisters and we must behave accordingly and love one another. To harm or kill others because they look different or because they have another religion is the greatest sin possible. It is the crime against God."
In those days, I didn't understand religion well, despite instruction, despite liking the nuns who taught me; but I got the message.
I remembered the full force of her words when she left us, and realized then that she had been my first spiritual guide. Regardless of our beliefs, the message she passed down to me was and is universal.
In general, I'm reminded of, "...With malice toward none with charity for all with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right let us strive on to finish the work we are in to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan ~ to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations..."
My mentor, Joe Bak, who had been taken prisoner at Corregidor in May of 1942, enlightened me on the value of living by those words as I contemplate the better ends of conflicts in our history, such as the WWII tactical, moral, and strategic victories that Lincoln would have wished for and done his best to achieve. Joe described how much the Japanese changed due to what he described as our far more productive treatment of them than they expected.
An Israeli friend, whom I understood was among 4 tank crews that repelled an attack by 200 Syrian tanks was as brave as I can imagine, but left Israel after what he seemed to describe as the IDF forces surrounding the Sabra neighborhood and Shatila refugee camp being held back as the Israeli leadership (Ariel Sharon in his case), allowed the "Christian" Phalangist allies to do the dirty work of excessive revenge, that just extended the cycle of counter-productive violence. He seemed to feel Ariel Sharon's actions made eventual just and moral peace so much more impossible for him to be a part of. He left Israel and is far from the only Israeli I knew who want a just and lasting peace, but he has been me the most heroic one (in combat and principles) I got to know.
Israel (Bebe) has squandered the good will toward Israel that existed after WW2. It will hang around his neck like an albatross. Sort of like Iraq hangs around W’s neck.
JL thank you for your comments on violence: “I fear that civilization will unravel if we don't.” Once we were afraid of violence and possibility of escalation. Remember the book, 2004: “The Search for a Nonviolent Future: A Promise of Peace for Ourselves, Our Families, and Our World” by Michael Nagler? I used to sign emails with “peace is possible.” Now I wonder.I attended a workshop with the other. Once we were more optimistic that we could change the world.
I have not read that particular book. I still think peace is possible, or at least more peaceful and more just. Enough people have to really want it. I think most people, in the US at least, were more optimistic in the past. I suppose fools think Trump will save them, but the general mood feels angry and/or depressive. We have lost a sense of agency, and we have by agreeing to let the rich run the world. We are hurtling back to monarchical autocracy and the impunity of the British East India Company. We need to get our bearings, and there are no easy answers, but there is the possibility of a change of direction.
I think that one factor to bears more awareness is TV. I don't know that this one study is proof, but we have to look at why so many of our fellow Americans are delusional.
Thank-you for posting this Fern. Secretary Austin is correct. i am glad to hear that people in such places are thinking along such lines and giving solid, pragmatic reasons for doing so.
The US IS 1000% culpable for the genocide of the Palestinians that Israel is carrying out with our weapons and tax dollars. But Israel has been doing this for 80 years. They have learned how to manipulate people to keep seeing them as Jewish victims when they are not. They have populated an entire country on OUR DIME- to slaughter and remove the indigenous people to move in white settlers. My Jewish children have more rights to land in Israel than our family in the West Bank.
Israel gets to keep crying wolf until all of Palestine is gone. They have plans to maintain this so they can be the perpetual victim and thus victor. They get to be in a perpetual state of war justifying their US welfare money. It’s classic and you are all falling for it.
this whole thread is full of people imposing their own biases onto a complex and different environment. As they say, if you’ve got a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
The “indigenous vs white settler” line you’re peddling, Tricia, is not valid in Israel/Palestine.
How do you deny “indigeneity” to the Jews who had lived there for centuries?
Do you realize that from around 1950 until the Soviet Jewish refugees arrived in the mid-1970s, the majority of Israeli Jews had black and brown skins? They were the refugees driven out of Arab and African countries where they had lived for centuries in response to the 1948 war.
Why do you impose upon them the identity of “white settlers” rather than the refugees from violent anti-Semitism that they are?
There are many things to be said about the settlements and the violence and the discrimination against Palestinians by the Israeli government and by many Israeli citizens.
But if you would not say that Trump and his followers represent America, how can you reduce Israel to a simple caricature, as you do here?
Easy, because tricia, here, is an anti-semite. I figured that out a while ago up-thread. 61% of Israeli Jews are Mizrachi. They're not white Europeans. But let's not let that interfere with her own racism.
tricia, while in hindsight the USA clearly could have, perhaps even should have done something different along the way, like sanctioning Israel by withholding arms or other kinds of support until Israeli leaders, especially Netanyahu, returned to lawful behavior by observing original UN boundaries and the rules of international law. What I believe has happened is that we (USA) have encountered a fundamental conflict in values between whether it is more important to support the only functioning democracy in the Middle East or support the rule of law.
As an American & jewish, I am have been struggling because of the very points G Mamlet raises. It hits home that most have no knowledge of how world history’s treatment of a distict population - the jewish population. Jews have been targeted for annhiliation for as long has history is been recorded be it Roman era, to Crusades, to the Holocaust. Whats troubling is that so many take the position that we Jews or any anyone else should not be speaking of this history because by speaking this history in an effort to bring context to the current war, that somehow is an effort to negate the suffering other groups, cultures, or groups that are or have suffered at the hands of others trying the same to them. Nothing could be further than the truth. To those who are sincerely interested understanding the nuances and facts behind this war I highly recommend the series of interviews conducted by Ezra Klein, podcasts from Nov 7, 10, & 17 that explores the various perspectives (Palastinan, Israeli and a progressive Rabbi) about 10/7 attack.
Antisemitism is deep within both Islamic and Christian cultures and has been for many centuries. The Jews who have rebuilt their ancient homeland are well aware of this and the goal is to obviously to have a safer place where they are not the oppressed minority. I can understand that. Even Jews who have assimilated in other countries are in danger when the ancient hates are aroused.
Americans should realize that European colonists did the same thing. Our ancestors invaded a populated country and, after more than 200 years of conflict, killed enough of the natives and took enough of their land to control them and stop the wars. That is what I expect Israel to have to do. It worked. I hope they can do it with less bloodshed and in a shorter time.
Our natives eventually assimilated to a large degree, and even those still living on reservations are no longer warlike. That should be the goal for Palestinians after enough of the warriors are killed or defeated. There is no other way.
The idea that our colonizing "effort" was successful because US indigenous people are "assimilated and no longer warlike" - that that is a hoped for outcome sort of strikes me a little bit WRONG! Yes there is a comparison to be made, but seeing this outcome as successful? What it took for that so-called successful outcome was hundreds of years of forced assimilation - forced removal of Indian children from their homes - reservations that have the bare minimum of utilities and services - lack of jobs - I could keep going on.
So I would hope that the Palestinian people (who are left) dont have to accept that kind of "goal".]
Harry, you are effectively advocating for a Jewish Lebensraum policy. Nazi Lebensraum was significantly modeled after the US Manifest Destiny justification for the murder and displacement of the American indigenous population. Adolf Hitler is quoted as saying: "... there's only one duty: to Germanize this country [Russia] by the immigration of Germans and to look upon the natives as Redskins.”
This Nazi plan for Lebensraum was formalized in Generalplan Ost. The general idea was to exterminate the population of Ukraine and replace that population with German farmers.
I recommend "Bloodlands" by Timothy Snyder for a fuller history.
'A Gaza hospital evacuated, four fragile lives and a grim discovery' (WAPO)
'A nurse at al-Nasr hospital was caring for premature babies. Then he faced the most difficult decision of his life.'
By Miriam Berger, Evan Hill and Hazem Balousha
December 2, 2023 at 11:02 p.m. EST
'JERUSALEM — The nurse in the besieged hospital was caring for five fragile babies. Infants, born premature, their parents’ whereabouts after a month of war unknown. Now he faced the most difficult decision of his life.'
'It was the height of Israel’s assault on northern Gaza last month, and al-Nasr Children’s Hospital was a war zone. The day before, airstrikes had cut off the Gaza City facility’s oxygen supplies. Israeli tanks had surrounded the hospital complex, and the Israel Defense Forces were calling and texting the doctors, urging them to leave.'
'But ambulances couldn’t safely reach al-Nasr to transport the wounded, and doctors refused to leave the facility without their patients.'
'The five premature babies were particularly vulnerable. They needed oxygen, and medication administered at regular intervals. There were no portable respirators or incubators to transport them. Without life support, the nurse feared, they wouldn’t survive an evacuation.'
'Then the IDF delivered an ultimatum, al-Nasr director Bakr Qaoud told The Washington Post: Get out or be bombarded. An Israeli official, meanwhile, provided an assurance that ambulances would be arranged to retrieve the patients.'
'The nurse, a Palestinian man who works with Paris-based Doctors Without Borders, saw no choice. He assessed his charges and picked up the strongest one — the baby he thought likeliest to bear a temporary cut to his oxygen supply. He left the other four on their breathing machines, reluctantly, and with his wife, their children and the one baby, headed south.'
“I felt like I was leaving my own children behind,” said the nurse, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to protect his privacy. “If we had the ability to take them, we would have, [but] if we took them off the oxygen they would have died.”
'Two weeks later, the pause in hostilities allowed a Gazan journalist to venture into the hospital. In the neonatal intensive care unit, Mohammed Balousha made the awful discovery.'
'The decomposing bodies of the four babies. Eaten by worms. Blackened by mold. Mauled, Balousha said, by stray dogs.'
“A terrible and horrific scene,” 'he told The Post. He took video.'
'The grim discovery was a reminder of the harrowing civilian toll of Israel’s war to eradicate Hamas, a campaign that has spared neither hospitals nor children. Thousands have been killed.'
'The current hostilities erupted on Oct. 7, when Hamas and allied fighters streamed out of Gaza to attack Israeli communities near the enclave, killed around 1,200 Israelis and kidnapped 240 more. Israel responded with a full siege, airstrikes and ground operations that have killed more than 15,200 Palestinians, according to the Gaza health ministry, including thousands of children.'
'Israel has long accused Hamas of hiding command-and-control centers in hospitals; the Biden administration has backed the claim. Hamas and Gaza medical staff deny it.'
'Still, Israeli commanders have made the territory’s health care infrastructure a focus of the military campaign. A month into the war, that included al-Nasr.'
'It was Nov. 10 when Israeli forces told al-Nasr’s staff they had to leave, according to Qaoud, the hospital director. “They sent us a map for a safe route,” he told The Post in a WhatsApp message. “They gave us half an hour to go out. Otherwise, they will bombard the hospital.”
'An official at the adjacent al-Rantisi pediatric cancer center seemed to receive an assurance that ambulances would retrieve patients from both al-Rantisi and al-Nasr. In a telephone conversation with the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories, an arm of Israel’s defense ministry, the al-Rantisi official requested ambulances. In a recording of that call released by the Israel Defense Forces, a senior COGAT officer responds in Arabic:' “No problem.” (WAPO) See gifted link for the article in full below.
No matter who you think is in the right or wrong; children, babies in incubators, children in the hospital for cancer care, doctors or nurses should never be in harm's way. This should be the case in every conflict.
Fern, thank you for sharing Austin’s words. The ones that jumped out at me were “ And if you drive them into the arms of the enemy, you replace a tactical victory with a strategic defeat.” One thing that the US learned in our wars is that the relatives of civilians killed in the fog of war tend to carry ill feelings towards those who caused the deaths. This may be the intent of Hamas: first they kill as many as they can and then, when Israel responds with a civilian casualty rich response, use the civilian casualties to engender hated of Israel (and Jews).
I sense a connections between Mr Schummers and Secretary Austin's. History and commitments honored and leadership of America to thread the needle that seams the tapestry of civil and civilian lives of people's seeking secure comity and freedom from persecution, even that of one minority against another. Thanks Fern for adding this in. Schummer was leading the larger cause that applies as well today in the strife that is Israel and the survival and freedom of Palestians andJews no matter where they live ... or, don't continue to exist.
Fred, I am not comfortable with the US' relationship to Israeli under Netanyahu and the, to my mind, extreme, right-wing government. There has been a lot of talk from Biden, Blinken...Harris Austin but what action? There does not appear to be any constraint on Netanyahu's part concerning the deathtrap of Gaza that he and Hamas have constructed.
I also think we need to separate those, like me, who are not even slightly in support of the Netanyahu attempt to keep power by bombing Gaza into the dust, from anti-Semites. The whole operation reminds me too much of George W. Bush's approach to the attack on the World Trade Center.
Bush's approach? Find a country with no military to support the civilian population and bomb that civilian population into the dust. That would be Afghanistan, even though not a single Afghan citizen was on any plane on 9/11/2001. That would be Iraq after lies of Weapons of Mass Destruction.
I was not in favor of the wanton bombing and destruction and civilian death in Afghanistan just to make Bush "look good" and I am not now in favor of the wanton destruction of civilian Gaza by Netanyahu for the same, exact reason.
Susan: Just as you are able to have an optimistic perspective--which is, of course, based on your own experience and knowledge--my perspective is informed by my own experience and knowledge.
Hope is good. We can have hope. We can have optimism. But that won't lead us to a world where speeches like Schumer's are not required. Over and over and over again.
Antisemitism and anti any group of fellow people is a cancer of the human species that has never been excised. Never will be. But it can be reduced like a tumor under radiation or chemo.
We need to have a realistic acceptance of the fact that Joanne is spot on right. Those who ARE the cancer will not hear or care about Schumer's speech.
It's the folks in the middle - who are not the cancer - who minimize the threat, who ignore the danger and allow the cancer to grow that I hope Schumer reaches. It is everyone's job to support Schumer's words and repeat them. Otherwise, we enable the metastasis.
Susan, telling people to "have hope" without recognizing the full extent and reality that there are millions of humans who really want to kill Jews...and Blacks...and Muslims is not productive. Let's have hope. But let's get real. This is a war across the planet. Always has been. Let's shrink the cancer. It will take more than hope. It will take a firm grip on reality with a steely resolve and an intolerance for intolerance.
Susan--with respect, your personal views do not entitle you to try to enforce mine. I of course welcome fact-based input that provides varying points of view. Thank you for respecting my right to form my perspective.
I’m not deaf and I’m not stupid enough to believe this act of propaganda is going to help a damn thing. This puts Jews in MORE danger. It legitimizes the current genocide and yes the OCCUPATION OF PALESTINE. From the River to the Sea Palestine will be free. Is indeed a call to end occupation please stop with the intentional propaganda. This is about colonization and the inhumane treatment of the Palestinian people. Shame on all of you.
Tricia, I think you need to do some self study on the history of the region. Compassion and hope for both Palestinians and Jews is the answer. A two state solution is the answer but legitimizing terrorism is dangerous and shows that you are in fact maybe a little deaf on the matter.
Kimber, I think you need to do some studying by people other than the one supporting your thoughts. I need not drop my vitae here but Inhave spent the last 30 years studying, meeting and working with people in the region. I love how the white people decided the two state solution is the answer because you haven’t actually done any of your own research you have only repeated the propaganda you have been fed. Has anyone asked the Palestinians what they want or need? Do your own research instead of trying to imply you are above someone else because of the way you think. Not a good look for compassion. Restorative justice is not shoving our ideas down the indigenous people throats.
As a self-proclaimed student of the region. What has Hamas done for most of the Palestinians? They have spent a lot of money on weapons and tunnels whose only aim is terrorism. How would you suggest negotiating with a group that is sworn to see you completely eliminated? Or do you think that the population of Israel should just pack up and leave?
Would love for you to hear the conclusions your 30 years of study have led you to? What is the solution? The destruction Israel and the Jews? Because that is the mission statement of Hamas, so if that is what you believe you are in fact supporting terrorism. Would love to hear your educated ideas on a solution instead of vitriol.
First of all it’s not our decision. It’s the decision of the remaining Palestinians and the Israeli’s who do. Support living together in peace. I don’t pretend to have a solution but I have listened to people. Are you aware there are a separate class of citizens in Israel called Arab citizens of Israel? Did you know they do not have the same rights as Jewish Israeli’s? The whole point is to stop being so arrogant that we have the answers. Start listening to the people who are telling you what the problems are. Look at Hands of Peace and Seeds of Peace. for 22 years we have been bringing these teenagers together to learn from one another to see the humanity in one another. Educate yourselves. Learn. Stop telling other people in regions you have NO KNOWLEDGE of what they should do. It is so colonial and settler of this conversation to be so incredibly uneducated about the actual issue and shut down the actually oppressed’s voice.
Let us remember that the West Bank became occupied because the Arabs began a war in 1967 and they lost territory. Israel did not ask for that war. In my opinion, all the conquered land should have been given back immediately… but life is not so simple. War is war. May reconciliation happen one day.,,, when talks begin again.
Wow, you would like to join Hamas and annihilate Israel? Where would you have suggested the remaining Jews in Europe go? No country would allow them in and Palestine was the historical home of the Jews. Would you like to give the native Americans back all their land? Should the Australians give back their land to their aboriginal population? If you think for a second that "From the River to the Sea Palestine will be Free" does not smack of antisemitism then I guess we don't know what antisemitism is!! If you were a European Jew and survived the holocaust where in the world would go to feel relatively safe? Maybe you believe that all the persecution Jews have experienced is their own fault. If so then antisemitism is justifiable. You can thank your lucky stars you don't belong to a minority that is subject to discrimination.
You think? Sheesh. I am gobsmacked by the ignorance on display in these comments. Willful ignorance. Heather's letter emphasized many of the key points of Senator Schumer's historic speech and I'm reading flagrantly anti-semitic talking points, finger wagging from up on high? I am so disappointed.
I would love for you to go look up the word semitic- go educate yourself and then come talk to me about being gobsmacked. You have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about.
It sounds to me like you are the one in need of the history lessons. I’m not calling for the destruction of Jews. Stop listening with your propaganda ears.
Genocide defined: Genocide is the intentional destruction of a people in whole or in part. In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group".
Israel has targeted the Hamas who use their own people as human shields. Could the Israelis have done more to save lives, maybe yes, but they believe that rightly or wrongly that Hamas with the backing of some Palestinians only want to annihilate Israel.
You’re so above everyone with your Israeli progoanda. You have no idea. Go read something by Ilan Pape or Gabor Mate or Rashid Khalidi just go educate yourselves and stop self aggrandizing your moral superiority. You seriously have NO IDEA what you are talking about.
As with so many humanitarian messages, the people who need to understand Schumer's message, will not be hearing it . . .
When Martin Luther King, Jr. gave his hundreds of sermons and speeches, most of his messages have been lost through time. But, several haven't and they continue to inspire people from all walks of life around the planet on a daily basis.
Schumer's speech was potentially aspirational and if the worlds inspire even one person, it was worth it.
Should a preacher cancel his service if only one person attends? Perhaps that one person is so inspired they make the world a more tolerant and better place.
Thanks, so much, Annie! Please don't hesitate to contact me if you are interested in learning more about these very young Polish-Jewish women who fiercely and successfully defied the Nazis and their collaborators.
Joanne, my father was born in Poland. The village he was raised in is now in the Ukraine. He was raised to be a Zionist and I am afraid he would’ve been one of the settlers on the West Bank if he hadn’t come to the US. My mother was from Berlin. What I wanted to say is that Leon Uris wrote the book, “Mila 18”. I read that in my early 20’s and telephoned my dad. He named off every character who were in the Resistance. I asked him when he had read that book and he replied “Ten years ago”. Asked him how he remembered all of the names and he told me they had all been his friends. Gave me chills and it was then I realized Uris used actual names for the people in his stories.
So interesting--Did your father spend any time in the Warsaw Ghetto? The setting of Uris' "Mila 18" was the Warsaw Ghetto. Just like the Polin Museum of the History of Polish Jews, the monument to Mila 18 stands on the ground of the former Ghetto. An interesting aside, here in Las Vegas, there is a beautiful Warsaw Ghetto Uprising Remembrance Garden, constructed of stones salvaged from the destroyed Ghetto. I am honored and grateful to have been able to make presentations there.
My father was raised in a town known for oil and wax called Borslav. He never knew his father as he died in WWI, thus he and sister lived with his grandfather and many aunts and uncles. Truly, his life in Borslav was almost exactly like what you see in “Fiddler on the Roof”. As far as I know, his relatives, not his mother nor his sister, were burned in gas ovens or killed in the oil fields.
My dad had, as a young man, been involved with “scouts”. That’s what he called them. Through the scouts, his eyes were opened to Zionism. I am not aware of any of his friends being in the Warsaw Ghetto and the reason being is that he started going into dementia in his 70’s. I do suppose, however, some of his friends ended up there. In 1967, he took himself to Israel to visit Yad Vashem. He met up with old friends he had been raised with which excited him. While he was there, the Six Day War broke out. That was a little harrowing but he was finally able to get back home.
Thanks for letting me know about the museum in Las Vegas. I will have to go to that the next time I am able to go.
Thanks, so much, Marlene Lerner-Bigley, for sharing parts of your father's fascinating story. There were many Jewish youth groups in Europe that were referred to as "scouts." His "scout" group might have been a branch of the "Haoved Hadati." Please do feel free to contact me if you plan to come to Las Vegas. While we don't have a Jewish museum, per se, we do have an outstanding Holocaust Resource Center, as well as the outdoor Warsaw Ghetto Uprising Memorial Garden. https://lvhresourcecenter.com
Huh. I didn't expect this interesting thread. I just ordered one of your books. Of my extended family that came from Poland, the women died at the hands of the Nazis ata greater rate than the men, who were more eligible to be selected to work vs. to be gassed.
It is my take that a huge dichotomy exists between what the government of Israel does vs the beliefs of the Jewish people of Israel. The same for Hamas and the Palestinian people.
Israeli Government cages the Palestinian people in a hopeless concentration camp with no escape; lives lived only to die in squalor; for what, to keep Israel from being integrated with people they think don’t belong there? It seems that Israel (as a state) wants to maintain a purer citizenship and uses the fact that they have been so persecuted by “others” that their only hope of survival is “to persecute” the “others” of Palestine. Is this the will of all Israel people or just of their elected politicians? To me, an average American who is not fully educated in the Minutia, I see a duplicity in how Israel treats Palestinians exactly the same way they don’t want the rest of the world to treat them. I don’t think I’m alone in thinking this
As Israel refuses to rein in the settlers in the West Bank, the glaring hypocrisy of the Israeli Government causes people like me to ask Senator Schumer to put the “shoe that oppressed” on the other foot. Is it possible that people that (wrongly) commit acts of violence against innocent Jews are confusing their victims with the actions of the Israeli Government? I certainly wouldn’t to be attacked by a terrorist that confused me with Trump
Mirror my entire post here with Hamas. Hamas and Bibi live in the same sphere
In order for people like me to understand how to protect the innocent Jewish people of the world I believe that the Jewish people need to understand what Israel is doing to Palestinian citizens and demand that Israel become more introspective
I’m sure my lack of understanding will create big pushback here, but I think Schumer’s speech was a bit one sided in his plea for defense of Jews
Where can the Palestinians go? They have no Promised Land it seems to me that Jews would be able to relate to that
I sadly fear that it is nearly a universal human tendency to seek outside or "other" forces when faced by evidence of human hatred and intolerance. 400 years ago Shakespeare recognized this need in his play Julius Caeser when he wrote "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars / But in ourselves." This remains an apt description of the human need to assign fault outside of self.
JohnM: So tragically true. And more recently, Walt Kelly's Pogo, whose comment about humankind's environmental destruction is equally applicable to humankind's self-destruction: "We have seen the enemy, and he is us."
And hearing. When working with various disabilities, I concluded that deafness was the most debilitating one that I ran across. So many have working ears, but choose not to hear. Or is it the closed minds.
To what? If that is a legitimate question, then the answer is ‘anything that doesn’t suit one’s established perceptions.’ As my bumper sticker reads...
The "closed minds" which shows up so much is an antagonistic phrase, usually aimed at the speaker's opponents. Yes, I think my question is pretty legit, since human beings so often frame their beliefs, facts, values as antagonistic to alternative bfvs. GOPers get sifted through the same process as Dems. In short one has a mind "open" to one set or other of bfvs and necessarily "closed" to bfvs which are antagonistic, ie incompatible or contradictory or opposed, to yours usually your group alliance. All the name calling in the world doesn't change the minds of your opponents, including the "closed mind" call. Good call on your "dont believe"... the fun being to disentangle your beliefs, reminds me of the "wisdom to know the difference" prayer.
It is very uncomfortable to untangle one’s beliefs to be open to consideration of another perspective. I never thought of the phrase ‘closed minds’ as antagonistic but that is interesting. I personally see cognitive dissonance as a more accurate explanation. Maybe because it doesn’t carry the same negativity as the word antagonistic IMHO. Thanks for
Silence isn't an option. If what needs to be heard isn't said no chance that anyone will hear it. But I feel your frustration. The Maggats...and likely too many folks across the board...refuse to listen to what they don't want to hear. How do we break through? Persistence?
Lucy Buxton--I'm sorry if my comment that the people who needed to hear and understand Schumer's words the most, wouldn't hear it, conveyed any thought of ever remaining silent on this topic. Implicit are the two nuances of "hearing." 1. Actual physical hearing; 2. Understanding the implications of what is being heard. Silence in the face of fascism is complicity. Those of us who understand this have not, and will not been silent. It is our way of life. My issue is with people who think that cheery aphorisms and exhortations about optimism are sufficient responses to fascism. Effective speaking up and effective political action require an informed, insightful, impassioned, commitment that is based in reality. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify my position.
As with so many humanitarian messages, the people who need to understand Schumer's message, will not be hearing it . . .
But we must try. Those carried away by the trouble makers may well take pause and hear this message. A very inspired speech in my view. I too want to be hopeful that many will hear it. It’s often a ripple effect, like s stone dropped into water.
I suspect that significant amounts of misinformation and fomentation come from Russian, Chinese, and Iranian sources. They have at least two goals: to distract us from Ukraine and to divide us, to set us against each other so we can not accomplish anything.
As are the republican extremists of today. This is a multi-pronged problem that we must deal with and educate people. Chuck Schumer speaking out like this is very educational for those who need to utilize Critical Thinking Skills around the world and not allow gaslighting, a totalitarian tactic to divide, to be thrust upon us.
Schumer: “the most extreme rhetoric against Israel has emboldened antisemites who are attacking Jewish people simply because they are Jewish.”
How utterly un-American to attack ANYONE because of who they are....
Thank you, Sophia. My sentiments exactly. One can state this idea without supporting Hamas or Bibi and those in Israel who knew a year before about this attack and dismiss with what can be only called hubris.
There is something vile about all extremists on all sides. Just as there is a rise in anti-Semitism there is an increase in sentiment against Arabs. Hamas wants to wipe out Israel and the Israeli government wants to obliterate Hamas and each side has its reasons.
As far as knowing a year in advance and dismissing it as fantasy, I don't buy it. How can you be one of the world's most sophisticated intelligence agencies and poo-poo this information about your gravest threat. I think they knew that Hamas was going to attack, as they regularly do, but that it wasn't going to be as bad, then seize Hamas's attack as the reason to destroy Gaza.
The Palestinian and Jewish people get along with each other. To watch the destructions those in charge are creating is truly hard to digest....
He describes bigotry.
Attacking people for no other reason than who the are. It is a sad reality around the world for many peoples.
Of course, before one can get people to do that to eachother, they establish that BEING the reviled person puts him or her into a category of persons deserving of our hatred. Inherently « vermin, » as one of our erstwhile leaders recently said of people who disagree with him.
Once you get people to think every single individual in a group is the same as every other, you have established the basis for bigotry.
The little boy who was stabbed by his landlord was killed for being a member of a group, not for any other reason. Attacked simply for being who he was. Bigotry.
If I disagree with how Israel has long been treating Palestinians, especially under Netanyahu, that is legitimate, but it is a political opinion. So many Jews in Israel themselves disapprove of and resist that treatment. One cannot hold all Jews, in Israel or anywhere, accountable for the Netanyahu policies.
How I judge Netanyahu.and the ultra-right, anti-Palestinian behavior in Israel has no bearing on how I judge Hamas, which has shown itself to be inhumanly cruel and monstrous. NOT a friend of the Palestinian people, but a predator, using them for sick power. The October attack was against innocents, not against the leadership,or the militant forces in Israel. It was against all Jews, and children and nonJews, in retaliation for the policies of some in the govenment.… bigotry, and collective punishment. Sick.
It brought retaliation against all Palestinians, including children and nonPalestinians in Gaza, and Hamas continued to use its own people as shields. Sick and wrong!
As is the utter devastation unleashed on Gaza, with Israel’s excuse that it is « self-defense. » The collective punishment of innocents in Gaza is not OK.
The Israeli military must go after Hamas, not innocent Palestinians.
Innocent children are never legitimate to attack. If Hamas were using innocent Israeli children for shields, would Netanyahu bomb their hospital?
I asked a prominent Israeli peace activist if Netanyahu even wanted the hostages back, since his bombing had been relentless for weeks. He said yes, if only to save Netanyahu’s own skin.
I take offense at the actions of and longterm policies of Netanyahu and his cronies. I am heartbroken by the pain and destruction and blood they have spilled in the West Bank and East Jerusalem and Gaza even before this « war. »
I am disgusted and completely reject radicalized, vicious Islamist factions like ISIS and Hamas, every bit as much.
As a dear friend had said to,me long ago, when Israelii Jews and Palestinians were talking to each other and trying to draw close to a way for all to live in peace on the land between the river snd the sea, People need to resist bigotry, always. And they must be careful not to circle their wagons when things get tough, shutting out their friends as well as their enemies.
I personally am pro-Jewish and Pro-Palestinian. I want desperately for peace, security and decency for so many deserving people!!!
Sophia, I detect a trace of cynicism there.
Brava! Well said. Thank you.
Thank you, Pensa.
Divide and conquer has been a military strategy for centuries.
Current application: Encourage Americans to turn against their Jewish countrymen. Spread conspiracy myths (Jews control banks and therefore the economy, etc) to fan flames of distrust and resentment. Don't support gun regulations after a radical shoots up a synagogue.
Agree with Stanley Goodman. Goal is to distract and divide us. We cannot allow that to happen.
Misinformation can be homegrown as well. It is for all who see the opportunity in crisis. The whole world sees these events differently, which is why it’s so easy to manipulate.
JaneDough56, agreed, different people see events differently. My point is that some are intentionally manipulating us for their own ends, and we should be aware.
Agree 💯
I would encourage us to not use the the softening idea of "misinformation." In American it is pure, intentional propaganda and gaslighting of vulnerable American people who now are in a cult. We need to use the correct words to describe this authoritarian/cult/fascist tactic and work hard to prove it is meant to sow chaos, fear, division and brainwashing. That is very different than just some "misinformation" in my book. The far right extremists know exactly what they are doing and are often funded by hostile domestic and foreign entities who want our democracy to fail. It is all about manipulation, power and control.
We need to call it what it is.
I agree. The assault on our democratic system is intentional. This is accomplished by suckering in the gullible who have no ability, or very little, to think critically so that they can realize that they are being used. Trump's success at grifting is proof of this naivete.
💯💯💯👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Most of the propaganda comes from the neo nazis within the indicted, potentially treasonous former 45th president’s cult.
Unfortunately, antiJewish sentiment has existed here for a very long time, partly because of the false idea that Jews control everything.
Today, the entity which ‘controls everything’ is the corporate community, the corporations. Taxpayers who are bolting both political parties are angry at corporations. Taxpayers bailed corporations out of bankruptcy under Presidents Bush2, Obama1 & 2, the indicted (potentially treasonous) former 45th president, and Biden1. Quantitatively, America’s corporations get a free ride; it’s called “free enterprise” & ‘free trade’. The new 15% corporate minimum income tax bill hasn’t moved in the Senate, which we are reminded is completely controlled by Dems. Again, I quote Dr. John Dewey who stumbled across the problem, “Government is the shadow cast by big business.” I add, “Both political parties provide the ‘shadow’. There is a solution. Study how Finland has revisi
I understand what power that corporations have and how they do get a free ride. I don't agree with that at all. I stated what long has been a belief about Jews, stemming perhaps from the time in Europe where only they could be bankers. I stated that it was a false idea. We are not Finland and right now we have a great big problem called death star and his minions. They have to be stopped and if we don't, we won't have a chance for any Finland like reforms.
...has revisioned capitalism to the benefit of all Finnish people.
Bingo. Corporations and wealthy oligarchs.
When I was a kid growing up in Texas, I thought that the hatred of Jews by Christians is because the Jews killed Christ. Actually, in Acts 5:30, it was the Sanhedrin that killed Jesus by hanging him on a tree. [That's one of the ways the Jewish religious officials killed heretics and apostates, along with stoning.] At this point in my life, I simply don't get it, the antisemitism. I truly don't.
Yes, the Jewish elite religious officials using the Romans as cover. I did a long paper on anti Jewish sentiment from the Romans to the First Crusade. The Romans were tolerant and gave Jews special privileges and the Jews rebelled anyway, the one thing Romans did not tolerate. Enter Titus and the destruction of the Temple and sending Jews elsewhere. Both Christians and Muslims expected Jews to convert and they didn't. There were large communities of both Christians and Jews in Saudi Arabia at the time of Mohammed and what the Jewish communities offered was criticism. But for a while Islam was much easier on Jews than Christians. Jews were isolated in European cities and often these areas were prosperous because Jews could be bankers and Christians couldn't. They also made excellent scapegoats for rulers or when things were not going well. Mobs went in and destroyed and looted Jewish areas. During the First Crusade, when the crusaders got to Germany, they told Jews to convert or die and were surprised when some (many?) chose to die. Then there were their most Christian majesties, Ferdinand and Isabella, who triumphed over Muslims and then threw Jews out. Any Jew who had converted to Christianity was also suspect.
Actually, the Sanhedrin was the Jewish "show" court that the Romans allowed to function so that commerce, etc, could continue under their (Roman's) occupation. It is my understanding Jesus was crucified, which is a Roman form of punishment. I don't suppose we will ever know what really happened.
Encouraged and led by the master of 20th century propaganda:
https://www.csis.org/analysis/kremlin-playbook-3-keeping-faith
Fair enough but America has its own sources of disinformation and hatred. Every minority group has been attacked and denigrated by Americans over the last 7 or 8 years. Republicans refuse to condemn it and in fact support it by at least failing to speak out. A big percentage of American say they are going to vote for a man with a rich history of prejudice while complaining about being a victim. Being fair is not that hard but we seem incapable. My heart breaks.
Come November 2024, Americans will not vote for the indicted (potentially traitorous) former 45th president.
Why? We love our unique developing democracy much more than we are swayed by corporations, CEOs, authoritarians, dictators & fascists.
🙏🏼 Hope. However, Inmate # P01135809 the bloviator of lies, is not really human, he is purely a soul-less corporation and wannabe dictator and proven cult figure. Americans, we have seen, are mesmerized by the rich and famous, who can get away with any kind of despicable behavior and still be voted (rather "installed") as POTUS. Capitalism is out of control and we do need to rein it in. We have the power How and Where We Choose To or Not to Spend Our Money.
Perfectly stated.
I hope you are correct in terms of your first sentence. And I am not at all sure about your second assertion.
What it means is that we need to be involved as never before and donate more money as never before. We can't let this be our Waterloo. We need activism at all levels, letter writing, texting, canvassing, voter registration, phone calling and more.
Good point, Stanley Goodman, and thanks for the reminder.
The Atlantic has an article that I received today: Roge Karma's article, "Why Americans abandoned the greatest economy in history," 12/3/2023 is an excellent read, but it ignores a core reason as to why our economy now is what it is: the propaganda campaign launched by the ultra-conservative think tanks in league with the oligarchs such as the Koch Brothers. This phenomenon of the oligarchs' use of the media that spewed volumes of propaganda using wedge issues such as abortion, gay rights, immigration and civil rights issue to manipulate the white Christian Protestants to vote against their own best economic and social issues is well covered in Thomas Frank's book, "What's the Matter with Kansas," published in 2004. The validity of this position is verified in the study by two Univ. of Kansas professors, David Norman Smith and Eric Hanley, entitled "The Anger Games: Who Voted for Donald Trump in the 2016 Election, and Why?" published in the February 2018 issue of Critical Sociology, a peer-reviewed journal. Their findings? Trump's voters support him because he shares their prejudices: racism, misogyny, antisemitism, homophobia and xenophobia, to name several. These people continue to support Republican politicians who keep supporting the ultra wealthy to their own detriment. Their feelings and support are so intense that they continue to support Trump even though he is a criminally indicted dishonest grifter who will destroy what rights they have left if he is given another chance.
We are, in fact, involved in a second Civil War, with the Oligarchs using racism, etc. to increase their already substantial power and control.
I believe so.
Let's face the fact that the most effective misinformation and fomentation comes from MAGA.
He’s certainly effective with his audience, but I suspect he’d flop if Fox and others hadn’t build huge news echo chambers and propaganda systems hosting Russian, Chinese, Iranian, and other content. There used to be enforcement of laws limiting the reach of media owners. A trusted Hispanic news network, Univision, was taken over by a MAGA associate of Jared Kushner; now it’s a pro-Trump source shifting Hispanic voters across the US.
I'm not just talking about one man, the MAGA I mean is everyone who spreads it even as a family talks at dinner.
Due respect to you, Joanne, for your understandable lament, I agree with Pat that we must try. So I'm going to do my best by posting Heather's newsletter in as many Twitter and FB accounts as I can. I'm also going to find someone on Tik Tok to get this out to the younger folks. Thank you Heather for already doing the leg work!
Hi Chaplain Terry Nicholetti--Also with respect, my lament that Schumer's message won't be heard and understood by the people who need to hear it the most, in no way was meant to imply that we shouldn't try to make them hear it. Many of us having been dedicated to spreading the this message long before his recent speech--and we continue to do so. I don't see any disagreement!
I don't either, Joanne, and I'm so happy to hear from you. I wouldn't be able to "post outside the choir box," (Quoting Pensa_VT below,) if I didn't know there was a solid community within to nurture and sustain all of us workers!
Thank you, Chaplain Terry!! Posting outside the choir box is so necessary!!
You are welcome! I love the phrase "outside the choir box," and used it in my comment to Joanne Gilbert above!
I believe this message is for all of us.
And all of us are messengers of one sort or another – for better or worse, positivity or negativity. UNITY is the priority now, based on common values and messages, or ‘divide and conquer’ strategies will continue to be effective and Democracy will fall.
I’m sorry- is this a democracy? Really? When you tell us we can only vote for Biden? When the Florida Democratic Party has decided that NO ONE ELSE gets to primary against Biden under the democrats? Reeeaallly? Tell me about this democracy we live in.
I’ll tell you about the democracy we live in. We are allowed to love and legally marry someone of our own sex, to take birth control, to get an abortion, to read undoctored history, to fight for our beliefs, to advance ourselves economically, to be a Jew, Brown, Black, White, Muslim, Christian, and so forth. Biden is the choice if you want to keep it.
Well said, Susan. Biden is my choice, no one else comes close to what he and his administration have been able to accomplish for this country or democracy.
Yes, and under such pressure.
But what about the vast number of misinformed and misguided Americans who do not want other Americans, as you put it, to be "allowed to love and legally marry someone of our own sex, to take birth control, to get an abortion, to read undoctored history, to fight for our beliefs, to advance ourselves economically, to be a Jew, Brown, Black, White, Muslim, Christian, and so forth."? The great flaw in democracy is that such people have a voice, and as the continued existence of the Republican Party proves, a vote as well. But alternative systems are worse, history shows. That is our problem and our challenge.
Yes. The first amendment needs tweaking. But how can lies be lawfully disallowed?
And here you are proving my point- telling me who to vote for. That wasn’t my question, my question was how is it democratic to not allow anyone to primary? Because you’re afraid that Joe might loose and whoever clenches the nomination will loose to Trump. I understand your logic. Please stop insulting people’s intelligence by trying to tell us how to vote. Maybe educate yourself on the issue which is why is the Democratic Party cheering on an active genocide?
You’re in complete control on who you choose to vote for. We do still have the freedom of speech to point out the likely consequences of a Republican getting more votes than Joe Biden. If Biden loses in 2024, tffg has told us they will either kill us “vermin” or lock us up. People didn’t believe tffg when he said he could kill someone on 5th Avenue and get away with it. Then he did kill people on Capitol Hill, and years later we’re still waiting to see if he’ll get away with it. Your false and persistent accusations that folks here are bullying you to vote a certain way are very troll-like.
But who knows maybe you actually don’t hear what is actually being said to you again and again, because you have your firmly fixed belief that you are being persecuted simply because people disagree with you.
I did not tell you how to vote. Show me where I told you how to vote. You’re throwing a tantrum. You didn’t get what you were after in FL.
The political parties have the right, as private organizations, to field the candidates they want. That said, if you want to vote for Dean Phillips (or Bullwinkle, for that matter), write him in. And in claiming that the Dems are "cheering on...genocide" you are deliberately ignoring about 20 pounds of nuance.
You may vote for anyone you would like to...that is democracy but to judge the Democratic party as a whole based on the state of Florida may be a mistake. In 70's, 80's and 90's Ralph Nader ran for president. People had the right to vote for him. He had NO chance of winning, only disrupting in the name of a cause. Was the cause just, perhaps. But the point is that in our present system and place where we are with a clear and present danger being the front runner on the GQP side, what would be the upside of Biden debating anyone in Florida?
To state that the Democratic Party cheering on active genocide is just incorrect and when words like "genocide" are used, it gets people's dander up!
I agree with Susan, you are throwing a tantrum. If you are going to toss veiled insults like "maybe educate yourself" then I'd suggest that you open your dictionary and look up the difference between "loose" and "lose" to start.
I know that sounds rude, which is not the intention. Generally, people on this forum are pretty civil. However, I do believe you crossed the line in the sand and I believe it is best to gently point that out to you.
What's wrong with someone expressing who they want people to vote for? Am I insulting people's intelligence by placing a sign in my front yard declaring my chosen candidate?
Nope Not telling you to vote for Biden or anyone else for that matter. What people are presenting is what will happen if death star and the Rs somehow prevail. They have said very clearly what their intent is. For me that is enough.
No one is telling you who to vote for. Or even requiring you to vote. This isn't Afghanistan, where you have to dip your index finger in indelible purple dye.
Cue the dramatics. If you don't want to vote for the Democratic candidate, then vote for the other guy. Or stay home. Either is a viable option. But stop crying victim.
The Democratic Party decided that Biden is its standard-bearer. It has that right. If you want to vote for someone else, form your own party and nominate a candidate. America gives you the freedom to do that.
"Active genocide," my ass. If Israel wanted to genocide Palestinians, it would have dropped 50 thermobaric bombs on Gaza on Day One and killed everything including the grass. Or dynamited the Mediterranean Sea into the Hamas tunnels, drowning everyone below and collapsing millions of Gazas above into the mud to die. Genocide would have been the far faster and easier choice.
Instead, we're at Day 58, with Israeli farmers and accountants called into military service to move inch by inch through those tunnels, risking their lives because Israel chose NOT to genocide Palestinians.
Maybe you should "educate yourself."
Voting for Biden is our best strategy to keep our democracy. Please don’t confuse it with anything other than that. But it’s also the best choice by far than anyone else in this moment in time.
GUH. How many times must we repeat that voting for a candidate is a chess move, not a Valentine (Rebecca Solnit, thank you for this slogan, which has really caught on). Look at the board, people!!!
How come I never heard that? But I knew it.
I say that because in my long life I have learned that the priority is to keep the vermin out. Yes, I said vermin, because he who calls others that is the worst example himself.
Soooo democracy?
tricia, OF COURSE you can vote for someone else!; even write-in a name! THAT is what democracy is about. The issue remains how to get your vote to count and what you want to accomplish with that vote?
Even in a democracy, you don't always get what you want. That's called reality.
You are able to vote alone and in private - who you vote for is YOUR business - no one is forcing you in any way - THATS democracy! We all have our own opinions - who we CHOOSE to select is our own business. THATS democracy.
Please explain. I think I'm missing what you consider a democracy -- what would have to change in order for the U.S. to become a democracy, in your opinion? (I'm not attacking you, trish, I'm really curious.)
Troll on....
Vote for anyone you want, Tricia. I think your comments are only meant to rile others. No can do.
I don’t disagree with you, tricia, but my concern is this: If a majority of Americans choose accuracy of definitions (or any other point of accuracy) over unity, the democracy we have now will likely become a dictatorship under a political party that wishes to more ‘permanently’ control us. ‘Divide and conquer’ is a very effective strategy. It’s effectively working against us. The only way to counter it is to unify into a supermajority with one focus — “Save Democracy”. Once that’s accomplished, improvement of democracy can - and should, happen too.
Yes. The 2024 Election is the least choice we have had in this country. And that choice is really simple because of one fact. A party of extremists have gone totally rogue and want to destroy our democracy and our rights.
If you are educated to the serious crisis we are in here in America today, the choice is to vote for Democracy (Biden) or Fascism (Inmate # P01135809 or whomever they decide to install). If one chooses to vote for Fascism, it could likely be the last vote you will ever have in your lifetime and our democracy will fail.
But you are free to vote this year! Many of us here would encourage Everyone to really take 2024 seriously and vote as if your life depends upon it. I encourage people who just want to waste time debating to use critical thinking skills rather than engaging in mental masturbation of whether or not this is a democracy. It will not matter one iota if you cannot keep it in 2024. Choose well, I say.
Tricia: democracy is on the line. President Biden, a person of obvious good will, with the confidence of Europe and beyond and the diplomatic experience of years is our best possibility of retaining it both here in America and in Europe. Democracy is an idea, held by some people and some countries. As Christine Todd Whitman, former cabinet member and Republican Governor, is saying: there is no longer a Republican Party, it’s a cult, and it is President Biden is holding the country together.
Democracy is not perfect. So, what’s new? Politics is the art of the possible. Elections are hardly ever choices between good and evil (although next November looks likely to be one of those rare cases). The choice is more often between the lesser of two evils (although, again, 2024 looks to be an exception). If you are looking for a perfect candidate or perfect democracy, you’ll never go to the polls again, no matter how long you live.
Who said : “Democracy is the worst form of government until you consider all others”
Sounds like Churchill, but not sure…
Churchill for sure. I think it was something like "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all others that have been tried," but you've got the essence.
Where did I say that I expect perfection? Where?I asked how it is democratic to refuse other people an opportunity to primary against Joe. Why would you respond with democracy isn’t perfect? That’s such an odd take away. Why not- gee why does Florida get to decide who I want to primary?
What criteria do you think the Democratic Party of Florida should use to determine who is on their primary ballot? I can think of a few myself, I was just wondering what you might like.
i feel a big hurdle us to address is our knee jerk reaction that an issue is black/white (no pun intended) Sure it may be annoying that FL (and others) may be keeping other Dems off the ballot. Annoying as it may be, in this moment in time, the best plan is to limit the options to Biden. Now, think beyond that about the implications of dividing the vote against the other opposition candidate. The RNC, Russia, China and many others who wish to weaken the USA are happy to contribute to the disarray. When we get frustrated and even angry - EYES ON THE PRIZE.
I don’t disagree with you, tricia, but my concern is this: If a majority of Americans choose accuracy of definitions (or any other point of accuracy) over unity, the democracy we have now will likely become a dictatorship under a political party that wishes to more ‘permanently’ control us. ‘Divide and conquer’ is a very effective strategy. It’s effectively working against us. The only way to counter it is to unify into a supermajority with one focus — “Save Democracy”. Once that’s accomplished, improvement of democracy can - and should, happen too.
I do understand that and we did get Joe elected in 20 with that hope yet, one by one our rights are stripped away and now Joe is fully embracing Zionism which is actually an extension of white supremacy. Unfortunately we have turns into the country where the political leaders think they know best and have convinced the middle of that as well.
I hear you, tricia, and I agree with you in part and disagree with you in part. (That’s an unmatched benefit of democracy.) But none of that is of the highest priority right now. It may feel good in the here and now to argue and vent about differing convictions, but that approach is feeding the ‘divide and conquer’ strategy.
Saving Democracy is the highest priority. Arguing and venting about an increasing myriad of issues is, at this point, feeding the ‘divide and conquer’ cancer.
Each of us makes a choice, in every interaction we have with others — will we choose to spread the cancer or stop feeding it?
Tricia, please re read the speech given by Senator Schumer and referenced in today’s letter from HCR. This is a crisis for the American Jewish Community. They hear the thundering echoes of their entire history - flight , death and destruction. We should have risen up in disgust and scorn and banishment when, after those cretins marched in Charlottesville with their tiki torches from Walmart, chanting “ the Jews will not replace us “.and the duly elected President of the United States said that there were good people on both sides . And he may be coming again . I am frightened and I am not Jewish.
tricia: Please provide examples of your assertion that, "Joe is fully embracing Zionism . . ."
Well, many Arabs are Jews. Netanyahu may have his own brand of Zionism. https://lsa.umich.edu/content/dam/cmenas-assets/cmenas-documents/unit-of-israel-palestine/Section1_Zionism.pdf
Now you ARE trolling.
Something like 61% of the Jews in Israel are Mizrachi--roots in North Africa, the Middle East and Asia. This is not white supremacy. You've shown yourself for what you are. An anti-semite.
Not engaging with you any more. You're not worth my time.
We tell you that voting for Biden is the only way to save our democratic institutions from autocracy in 2024. That is freedom of speech. You are entirely free to choose who you vote for and that is democracy. Successful people work with what they have to create what they want, keeping in mind that they are only one of over 300,000,000 million souls. It’s a delusion that you can create something out of thin air. The people that make up the Democratic Party have been working it for a very long time, like Joe Biden, a lifetime.
This has been the case forever has it not? The incumbent if he/she desires to continue, unless there are extraordinary circumstances, is going to be the nominee. The DNC has made mistakes in the past - I don't deny it. And it might be that a better candidate is out there. But the DNC recognizes, as we all should, that there are only two choices that matter in the upcoming election. One - do we want to continue the democracy? And two - do we want to risk that democracy to a would-be dictator? Squabbling among Democrats about how to conduct our world view pales in comparison to those two choices. Given that, who gives our party the best odds at winning the election. Most feel it is the current Biden/Harris administration. Hard to argue otherwise.
You can vote for anyone you want! The Party has decided not to throw money into supporting other candidates. That's all.
This is an important point you raise that I hope Heather will address. There is no democratic electoral process right now. Biden running unopposed seems to be the official Democratic Party line. Media follows suit. That's why Marianne Williamson gets no air time. So thank you for raising this. Your comment below about Palestine is another matter. That statement is not a call to end occupation but a call for the obliteration of Israel. The Jews are not colonizers.
I’m sorry but you have to educate yourself from the people who are actually using it not what the Zionist agenda wants you to believe. Israel actually calls for the destruction of Palestine, daily.
I have been using Florida as an example for this as well. They are banning books about the truth- about the real history of this country. It is the same thing Israel did to the Palestinians, they destroy the Palestinian narrative and turn them into “human animals” so they can justify genocide. It’s not opinion it’s fact. Please read books by real historians, like Ilan Pape or Rashid Khalidi even listen to what Gabor Mate a Holocaust survivor, has to say. Just listen and put aside that this is about destroying Jews. Because it’s not. Palestine has the right to exist and we have to atone for our part upholding a racist ideology- that’s what Zionism is- at the expense of the indigenous people of Palestine.
Please go educate yourselves on Zionism- tell me it’s not racist.
https://lsa.umich.edu/content/dam/cmenas-assets/cmenas-documents/unit-of-israel-palestine/Section1_Zionism.pdf
Tricia, I doubt you are sorry. Your tone is patronizing, though. Again, these antisemitic tropes and pat blanket statements are dangerous. As Chuck Schumer said in his historic speech, we must call them out when we hear them. To be honest with you, they terrify me. And I’m not being hyperbolic. Before 10/7 and the response of many who I thought were allies, I could not fully grasp what my holocaust survivor relatives and friends have tried to convey about their experiences. I bore witness and thought, I’m so relieved that can’t happen again. Now I feel the weight of their experiences in a new way. Or an old way.
For space, I’m going to keep this simple. Too simple, yes, as the Middle East is a most complicated place. Maybe we can agree that Netanyahu and his ilk have not helped matters and he should probably be in prison (I say probably because he deserves his day in court). Seeing your reading list, you might broaden your scope.
Israel doesn’t call for the destruction of Palestine daily. Israel is not a monolith. There are many voices. Some of the voices for peaceful co-existence with Palestine were slaughtered, tortured, raped, kidnapped and whose horror was gleefully videotaped and sent to their families to augment the savagery. And then there has been the justification - the celebration of this barbarity in American streets and harassment of American Jews. Where is your outrage? Do you think Hamas is an armed resistance organization and Israel bears full responsibility for what happened on 10/7?
Zionism is not a racist ideology. It is one of the most successful liberation and self-determination movements the world has ever seen. After nearly half of the world Jewish population was murdered, a haven was established from the periodic persecution, expulsion and extermination Jews have experienced over millennia, the modern state of Israel. An Arab country was also to be established but rather than accept shared land with 2 states, 5 surrounding nations invaded the nascent Israel. What ensued was war and war is hell. It is heartbreaking and awful that Palestinians, Armenians and others fled or were expelled from their homes.
Of course, the Palestinians have a right to self-determination and a homeland. Their leadership does a lot to prevent this. Mousa Abu Marzouk says the tunnels are there to protect Hamas fighters, not civilians. He says the UN is meant to protect the civilians, refugees, as he calls them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ry8V4ppJBk
This is the liberation movement of the Palestinian People? Why are the Palestinians of Gaza refugees? Gaza was ‘liberated’ of Jews in 2005. Why hasn’t Hamas cared for its citizenry with the billions of dollars it’s received and built a country rather than tunnels? What’s been more important to Hamas?
Lastly, when I hear college students ask why don’t the Jews go back where they came from, I wonder... shall my son’s Iranian Jewish friend from day school go back there? Ask Talia Dror.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZM_u-CuTRE
Shall my Yemeni Jewish friends go ‘home?’ Or Libyan Jews, should they identify as eternal refugees, longing to return? Why aren’t these questions you ask yourself? The Arab world is effectively judenrein. Why?
Israel’s existence is essential to Jewish survival. Comments like yours just drive that home for me.
Thank you for the references!
Tell that to the Palestinians that live in the West Bank who have lost their land and access to their crops by people who have been allowed to settle there and take the land. It reminds me of what happened to the Native Americans.
I share your concerns about some of the settlement building in the disputed territories. Not helpful for finding peace or building trust, for sure. Since you mention Native Americans, if you own property in the US, are you prepared to return it?
Ahhh Samantha, how else does one explain their acquiescence to their own far right political faction which seems not only to tolerate but actively support and arm settlements and settlers in the West Bank contrary to UN convention and international law?
How does one explain that Trump became President and a small, Far Right cabal has so much power in the House of Representatives? That we treated immigrants on the border like animals and separated children from their parents, keeping no records? That we allowed a kleptocracy to try to take Native and public lands? That multiple states with Gerrymandered legislatures have effectively outlawed abortion, turning women into second class citizens? Surely this reflects the politics, will and aspirations of the people of the United States as a whole.
You don't get it. No one is telling you that you can only vote for Biden. You can vote for the purple people eater if you want to. What we all understand and probably the D party in Florida is that we cannot afford a split vote because of the true danger to democracy that death star and his minions are. I wish we were not in this situation and I wish we had some other options. But we are where we are.
Tricia: The blunders and machinations of the Democratic Party are not the result of the government not being a democracy. They are the result of the Democratic Party leadership not being democratic.
Question: did you have this complaint with the GOP the last time Trump ran?
The unity that we seek is in the grace of God. We must seek it together and grasp it with all of our strength. I see no other solution.
Absolutely Annie. All things considered, awareness of our own ignorance and bigotry, now and in our history, is more difficult, and ultimately more important, than awareness of the ability of others to amplify it.
Agreed Annie. I thank HCR for publishing this. It has helped me to sort out my feelings about this issue. Im grateful Senate Majority Leader Schumer took advantage of his bully pulpit to remind someone like me, -clarify for me- this horrendous situation.
Thoughtful words are crucial at this time of turmoil, discord, suffering, war and care for one another.
'WASHINGTON (Reuters) -U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin delivered perhaps his strongest remarks to date on Saturday over Israel's need to protect civilians in Gaza, calling them the center of gravity in Israel's war with Hamas and warning over the risks of their radicalization.'
'Austin, in remarks to the Reagan National Defense Forum in Simi Valley, California, said he has personally pushed Israeli leaders to avoid civilian casualties, to shun "irresponsible rhetoric" and to prevent violence by settlers in the West Bank.'
'He also said he's pressed Israel to dramatically expand Gaza's access to humanitarian aid, adding that he expected more deliveries of aid "in the days ahead."
"In this kind of a fight, the center of gravity is the civilian population. And if you drive them into the arms of the enemy, you replace a tactical victory with a strategic defeat," 'Austin said, drawing on his experience as a four-star general overseeing the battle against Islamic State militants.'
"So I have repeatedly made clear to Israel's leaders that protecting Palestinian civilians in Gaza is both a moral responsibility and strategic imperative."
'Israel has sworn to annihilate Palestinian militant group Hamas following Hamas' Oct. 7 rampage in southern Israel, in which Israel says 1,200 people were killed and more than 200 taken hostage.'
'The Gaza health ministry says more than 15,000 Palestinians have been killed since the start of the war, with at least 193 Palestinians killed just since Friday's collapse of a truce between Israel and Hamas.'
'Austin's remarks came as Israeli warplanes and artillery bombarded the enclave on Saturday.'
'The United States has rushed military assistance to Israel, including air defenses and other munitions.'
'Austin pledged that the United States would stand by Israel's side, noting Israel's obligation to respond after Hamas' Oct. 7 attack and calling the Palestinian militant group a' "cruel enemy."
"The United States will remain Israel's closest friend in the world. Our support for Israel's security is non-negotiable," 'he told an audience of prominent U.S. lawmakers, national security officials and defense industry executives. Austin also renewed U.S. calls for a two-state solution to resolve the Israel-Palestinian conflict.'
"Without a horizon of hope, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will remain an engine of instability and insecurity and human suffering," he said.'
'As the Israel-Hamas war escalates tensions in the region, the Pentagon has been wrestling with wave after wave of attacks against U.S. troops by Iran-backed groups who blame the United States for Israel's actions in Gaza. Austin accused Iran of "raising tensions" and noted recent U.S. air strikes in response.'
"We will not tolerate attacks on American personnel. And so these attacks must stop," he said.' (Reuters)
(Reporting by Phil Stewart; editing by Jonathan Oatis) This article was copied in full.
"In this kind of a fight, the center of gravity is the civilian population. And if you drive them into the arms of the enemy, you replace a tactical victory with a strategic defeat," 'Austin said, drawing on his experience as a four-star general overseeing the battle against Islamic State militants.'
"So I have repeatedly made clear to Israel's leaders that protecting Palestinian civilians in Gaza is both a moral responsibility and strategic imperative."
It appears to me that sometimes violence must be confronted with violence when no other remedy is practical. Hitler had to be confronted with military force. Homicidal terrorists are a clear and present danger for which the use of force is entirely justified. That said, human violence is our specie's greatest enemy, and yet the same mistakes seem to be made century after century, decade after decade.
Steven Pinker and others have argued for all the violent horror we see today, the past was worse, even more cruel and pervasively violent, which I think may well be true, but yet our tools of violence have become more insidious and destructive. The players change with each generation but the "cycle of violence" seems keep momentum even though it ebbs and flows. Every effort to dial back violence (of many kinds) as much as is practical enhances our specie's chances of survival and the prospects of lives worth living. I fear that civilization will unravel if we don't.
JL,
My own personal challenge in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is I that am 63. Although it is true I have not riveted my attention on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict over the years, I have followed the news of various failures of the two state solution, especially when the PLO was working with Israel and the Clinton administration in the 1990's.
To my own brain's perception of all these years of news around the issue, it does seem that Israel has always been slowly expanding their occupation of Palestinian lands and, in the last 10 years, has amped up imprisonment of Palestinians, often for no reason, and without clear due process.
It is also my perception that the USA has ably aided and abetted Palestinian displacement by insuring that the Israeli military police apparatus always have mountains of modern weapons and plenty of money to build jails.
Now? Hamas has engaged in one of the worst attacks on Civilians of my life. Only the attacks of the United States on civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq is/was worse. Well, Russia's attack on civilians in Ukraine is also equal. Putin must have had a phone call with Bush II before he got started.
To me? It looks like Israel is not so much attempting to "root out Hamas". It looks more like Netanyahu is trying to bomb his way to stay in power forever. Much as George W. Bush was attempting to get a second term in spite of ignoring the CIA's warnings of an impending attack by Osama Bin Laden.
I think Netanyahu feels that Israeli's will be happy about the wanton destruction of the Palestinian people and their homes and schools and hospitals and sad way of life.
To me it looks like a weak man, with no morals and no plan, who is also responsible for sleeping at the Security switch in Israel for the last 10 years, is trying to keep his job by showing that he can kill more Palestinians than anyone ever before.
I wish I did not see it this way. I wish I could see the Israeli side with more sympathy. But, having now studied for nearly a month, it seems to me that, starting with the Balfour Declaration, and using weapons from the USA, Israel has been moving Palestinians from their homes and leaving them with no place to go, no jobs, no education and no future.
I am NOT anti-Semitic. I agree with Schumer strongly. I feel no antipathy to any religion at all. Everyone gets to believe whatever they want. If someone believes a green rabbit will lift their soul to heaven after a life of eating carrots? I am OK with that.
However, I am not in favor of the steady displacement, occupation, imprisonment, and racism that Israeli's show toward the human beings who call themselves Palestinians but look EXACTLY like Israeli's.
Human. Looking for ways to feel superior to others, be it religion, caste, skin color, or whatever is just dumb.
You have said what I have been thinking for many years. I agree with Schumer and believe Jewish Americans are threatened with violence but when the news shows the absolute destruction of Palestinian cities, it is inconceivable to me that any attempt is being made to stop this and to stop the killing of the Palestinian citizens. I feel it has been a very lop-sided endeavor for many years with the Israelis seeming to want all the land with nothing left over for the Palestinians. And the United States has contributed a great deal to fund the Israeli war machine.
Sharon, your perception and my perception are essentially the same. I do want to rush to say that our perception does NOT make us anti-Semitic.
It makes us fair minded people.
Mike S., your comment makes many points. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict, like most regional conflicts, is complex. I agree that Netanyahu has chosen to sacrifice national and regional wellbeing for his own. In other words, he, his coalition partners, and most of the settlements must go. In 2005, when Israel left Gaza, they forced Israelis there to leave and to shutter their businesses, so such things have been done before. It is easy to blame Israel, with the most powerful military in the region, for wanton killing of Palestinians, but I suggest we should be aware of our own biases (e.g., favoring the underdog) and, pardon me, ignorance. There is so much about this war we don’t know.
In the bigger picture, imagine the stress of Israelis: sending their children into required military service where lives are really at risk. Year after year, generation after generation. Imagine their sense of hopelessness when dreams of peace went nowhere, like when Arafat rejected Begin’s offer to return ~97% of the land won in 1967.
At the same time, we must be aware of the anger and bitterness felt by Palestinians whose family members have been murdered and family lands stolen by settlers.
So there have been severe leadership failures on both sides, with regular citizens paying the price.
HISTORY: Do you know that Jerusalem’s population in the later 1800s was mostly Jewish? Many Arab and Muslim countries of the region, e.g., Jordan and Saudi Arabia, were established by the British in the 1920s, after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, so they’re barely older than Israel. And one more fact: similar numbers of Jews and Muslims were made refugees c.1948. We hear about Palestinian refugees, but not about the Jews who were forced out of Muslim nations then.
Bottom Line: This is complex and the result of failures on all sides. “Who’s right and who’s wrong” become difficult or impossible to answer when we know the facts.
Stanley, you are indeed a good man with your historical facts. Thank you.
Stanley. Nobody could ask for a more thoughtful comment than your excellent writing.
And no. I did not know that Israeli people were displaced in 1948.
Not just Israeli people - but thousands of Jews from all over the Middle East and North Africa. Recommended book: UPROOTED:How 3000 Years of Jewish Civilisation in the Arab World Vanished Overnight by Lyn Julius. You can find many talks by Lyn Julius on YouTube.
I appreciate what you have written. Can you provide some links to the “ history” part of your comment,? Thanks
I am currently reading A Line in The Sand: The Anglo-French Struggle for The Middle East: 1914-1948 by James Barr. It gives the history of the region going back a LONG time.
I’m afraid I have to agree with you. I’m 64 and I too remember the decades that efforts were made to create a two-state solution, as I believe it must be for both cultures to survive. People forget that Palestine is populated with Christians and even secular people, alongside the Muslims. And all are just humans. We cannot paint any people with a one-dimensional brush of judgment. I believe Israel could go a long way toward changing hearts and minds just by jettisoning Netanyahu, their chief warmonger. I can easily separate my love for the Jewish people from the destructive actions of the current Israeli government. But I’ve been around long enough to understand that systems and governments engage in and promote war; not people. There is a way clear for us to love our fellow man and mourn the suffering that war and violence brings and still protest the institutions of power that are perpetuating the violence and destruction.
I think Netanyahu's priority is personal power. as is Putin's, as is Trump's. Peace is antithetical to their permission for authroitarian command. Nearly everyone else, including their supporters, suffers.
Dumb seems to rule
Dumb often, Jeri, but so often just politically expedient. Consider our own politics of the far right...
I am 75 ... and would also like to share a bit of history ...
(1) Recent history - poll published by AWRAD, Arab World for Research and Development, conducted shortly after the October 7 pogrom. (https://www.awrad.org/en/article/10719/Wartime-Poll-Results-of-an-Opinion-Poll-Among-Palestinians-in-the-West-Bank-and-Gaza-Strip)
Table 33: Do you support the solution of establishing one state or two states in the following formats:
Two-State Solution for Two Peoples: 17.2% (WB 13.3%. GS 22.7%)
One-State Solution for Two Peoples: 5.4% (WB 7.7%. GS 2.2%)
A Palestinian State from the River to the Sea: 74.7% (WB 77.7%; GS 70.4%)
(Other 0) Don't know or N/A: 2.7%.
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I support the maybe 25% of the Palestinians who do NOT want to destroy Israel .
(2) In connection with the dissolution of empires after World War I, the nation-state became an ideal for many. The Jewish people all over the world had for centuries - but intensely since about 1880 - looked to re-create a homeland in their ancentral area. And with European political Zionism, they too wanted a state - even the tiniest of states. A place where they could protect themselves from persecution and violence.
British Foreign Secretary Ernest Bevin wrote in November 1947 in connection with giving up the Mandate for Palestine [my emphasis]: "His Majesty's Government have thus been faced with an irreconcilable conflict of principles. ... . For the Jews the essential point of principle is the creation of a sovereign Jewish State. For the Arabs, the essential point of principle is to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty in any part of Palestine. The discussions of the last month have quite clearly shown that there is no prospect of resolving this conflict by any settlement negotiated between the parties. But if the conflict has to be resolved by arbitrary decision, that is not a decision which His Majesty's Government are empowered as Mandatory to take." < https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/1947-02-18/debates/4f8bc0e9-f2d5-4267-8d07-10707986db6e/PalestineConference(GovernmentPolicy)>
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Recently I saw a news segment featuring an interview of an Israeli saying that Israel has a right to 100% of that land. How widespread is this in Israel? I have not seen this subject discussed.
My impression is that it is between 40 and 50% ... still quite a way from the approx. 75% of Palestinians that want it. Note that at least some Israelis who believe that Israel does have that right are also willing - in the name of peace - to forego that right.
Best comment on the blog today. Keep up the good work.
I can hate the goals and methods of the Trump Administration and the Republican Party without hating America and Americans. Likewise, I can hate Netanyahu’s leadership, policies and actions without hating Jews.
I learned about the Holocaust when I was 12, just a few years after the Eichmann trial in The Hague. I was given a school assignment to write an essay: “The Holocaust - Could it Happen Again.” I asked my mother “what is the Holocaust?” and she just said “I’ll take you to the library,” dropping me off at the door of the enormous Cleveland Public Library. I asked the librarian “What is the Holocaust?” And she pointed to the card catalog room. I found the cards and their Dewey Decimal numbers led me to a tiny dusty alcove, where I read about horrors that I could not ever have imagined. When my mother picked me up, I was in shock and tears. I wondered out loud, “could this have happened?” Her response: “Some people say so.”
The adults were silent. My mother was a denier.
Clearly we need to assign our children essays like I had to write. Of course I wrote it could never happen again. And of course it has. In Rwanda. The Balkans. Ukraine.
I have never forgotten. I have read hundreds of histories and memoirs. I had always planned to make a pilgrimage to Auschwitz (until my mobility became limited). I support the Jewish people and the Jewish State. But not Netanyahu, whose methods strike me as chillingly reminiscent of the collective punishment by the very Nazis I read about as a 12 year old.
Thank you Marge. I wish more people had been directed to that dusty corner in the library.
Well said. I had a similar experience but at my small Catholic school library in Jamestown, ND. I couldn't believe it. i couldn't believe no one had mentioned it at home or in school. Later we read "The Diary of Anne Frank' as seniors.
A correction or two (bearing in mind that such corrections are always a secondary matter):
Israeli Jews are all colors and origins (but some have, of course, always been far more equal than others).
Re. your final paragraph, a clear majority of citizens would have thrown out Netanyahu a long time ago if they'd had half a chance—consider the months and months of mass demonstrations against him and the doings of his rump extremist government. But the man clings to power like a leach and has taken advantage of Israel's deeply flawed and irresponsible form of democracy that enables every tail to wag a dog (even when it has come down to tiny Israel wagging the United States of America). He treats everyone, very much including his fellow citizens, as animals to be manipulated... “Everyone” included Hamas, whose leadership has ended up manipulating him and many others.
Underwriting the existence of Israel is one thing, but there soon comes a point at which limitless endorsement loads a heavy weight of responsibility on the protector. Not to say far more.
In all matters concerning Israel/Palestine it is almost impossible to express any view without causing offense to someone. Circumstances could not be more divisive—as a direct consequence of policy, first Israeli, now that of Hamas, which was designed to create the deepest possible divisions. Under the circumstances, it is a common human duty to work for peace, bringing together those who are apparently irreconcilable.
I have shown my view in greater depth in a comment posted some 6 hours ago, beginning with the words: “The horror: those who planned October 7th knew exactly what they were doing and know the consequences now.”
We watch “Fauda” , the Israeli Intelligence series and those guys were obviously not on the job on Oct. 7th unfortunately. Fauda means chaos not the least of which is that all Israelis and Palestinians look totally alike so it is not color that causes the differences here. Years ago we were on a Kibbutz on the Jordanian border. On the Israeli side were melons, tomatoes, apples and cattle in a large shed being sprinkled with water in the Israeli heat and on the Jordanian side nothing but sand and rocks. That was another big difference. The new Israeli’s had transformed the land and the big tech revolution in Israel was yet to come. Not so in the neighboring Arab lands. Lebanon is a failed state as is Syria today. The rest of them just struggle on to provide better lives for their citizens.
The more I read you, Curiosity, the more I feel what you have written and want to apologize for those minor corrections.
What Marge Wherley has written makes a strong impression too.
I met my first deniers in the early 1960s. Perhaps they could not be blamed at the time, they believed what their father told them, and he was a notorious Nazi collaborator who had escaped to Franco's Spain.
In my family, we knew too much. My father's first cousin, an officer in the British army's medical corps, opened up two concentration camps, the first, Fort Breendonk near Antwerp in Belgium, a punishment camp for political prisoners run by psychopaths recruited from German prisons, the second, Bergen Belsen. Some prisoners there had been evacuated from death camps and survived marches, only to die in the typhus epidemic raging in the camp.
We were living in South Africa in 1948 and I was eight years old when I caught sight of some photos of Belsen, but could not understand. These explain, however, what made my mother take me aside and speak to me solemnly, telling me never to forget her words.
"We are," she said, "all children of the same God. We are brothers and sisters and we must behave accordingly and love one another. To harm or kill others because they look different or because they have another religion is the greatest sin possible. It is the crime against God."
In those days, I didn't understand religion well, despite instruction, despite liking the nuns who taught me; but I got the message.
I remembered the full force of her words when she left us, and realized then that she had been my first spiritual guide. Regardless of our beliefs, the message she passed down to me was and is universal.
It is important to understand different types of conflicts, while historical generalizations and about the human species are also valuable.
In general, I'm reminded of, "...With malice toward none with charity for all with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right let us strive on to finish the work we are in to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan ~ to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations..."
My mentor, Joe Bak, who had been taken prisoner at Corregidor in May of 1942, enlightened me on the value of living by those words as I contemplate the better ends of conflicts in our history, such as the WWII tactical, moral, and strategic victories that Lincoln would have wished for and done his best to achieve. Joe described how much the Japanese changed due to what he described as our far more productive treatment of them than they expected.
An Israeli friend, whom I understood was among 4 tank crews that repelled an attack by 200 Syrian tanks was as brave as I can imagine, but left Israel after what he seemed to describe as the IDF forces surrounding the Sabra neighborhood and Shatila refugee camp being held back as the Israeli leadership (Ariel Sharon in his case), allowed the "Christian" Phalangist allies to do the dirty work of excessive revenge, that just extended the cycle of counter-productive violence. He seemed to feel Ariel Sharon's actions made eventual just and moral peace so much more impossible for him to be a part of. He left Israel and is far from the only Israeli I knew who want a just and lasting peace, but he has been me the most heroic one (in combat and principles) I got to know.
Israel (Bebe) has squandered the good will toward Israel that existed after WW2. It will hang around his neck like an albatross. Sort of like Iraq hangs around W’s neck.
Jeri. Me being from A&M I have been spelling Bibi incorrectly.
I also sometimes misspell NitWitYahoo as well.
😊
JL thank you for your comments on violence: “I fear that civilization will unravel if we don't.” Once we were afraid of violence and possibility of escalation. Remember the book, 2004: “The Search for a Nonviolent Future: A Promise of Peace for Ourselves, Our Families, and Our World” by Michael Nagler? I used to sign emails with “peace is possible.” Now I wonder.I attended a workshop with the other. Once we were more optimistic that we could change the world.
I have not read that particular book. I still think peace is possible, or at least more peaceful and more just. Enough people have to really want it. I think most people, in the US at least, were more optimistic in the past. I suppose fools think Trump will save them, but the general mood feels angry and/or depressive. We have lost a sense of agency, and we have by agreeing to let the rich run the world. We are hurtling back to monarchical autocracy and the impunity of the British East India Company. We need to get our bearings, and there are no easy answers, but there is the possibility of a change of direction.
I think that one factor to bears more awareness is TV. I don't know that this one study is proof, but we have to look at why so many of our fellow Americans are delusional.
https://theconversation.com/santos-now-booted-from-the-house-got-elected-as-a-master-of-duplicity-heres-how-it-worked-218742
Thank-you for posting this Fern. Secretary Austin is correct. i am glad to hear that people in such places are thinking along such lines and giving solid, pragmatic reasons for doing so.
The US IS 1000% culpable for the genocide of the Palestinians that Israel is carrying out with our weapons and tax dollars. But Israel has been doing this for 80 years. They have learned how to manipulate people to keep seeing them as Jewish victims when they are not. They have populated an entire country on OUR DIME- to slaughter and remove the indigenous people to move in white settlers. My Jewish children have more rights to land in Israel than our family in the West Bank.
Israel gets to keep crying wolf until all of Palestine is gone. They have plans to maintain this so they can be the perpetual victim and thus victor. They get to be in a perpetual state of war justifying their US welfare money. It’s classic and you are all falling for it.
this whole thread is full of people imposing their own biases onto a complex and different environment. As they say, if you’ve got a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
The “indigenous vs white settler” line you’re peddling, Tricia, is not valid in Israel/Palestine.
How do you deny “indigeneity” to the Jews who had lived there for centuries?
Do you realize that from around 1950 until the Soviet Jewish refugees arrived in the mid-1970s, the majority of Israeli Jews had black and brown skins? They were the refugees driven out of Arab and African countries where they had lived for centuries in response to the 1948 war.
Why do you impose upon them the identity of “white settlers” rather than the refugees from violent anti-Semitism that they are?
There are many things to be said about the settlements and the violence and the discrimination against Palestinians by the Israeli government and by many Israeli citizens.
But if you would not say that Trump and his followers represent America, how can you reduce Israel to a simple caricature, as you do here?
Easy, because tricia, here, is an anti-semite. I figured that out a while ago up-thread. 61% of Israeli Jews are Mizrachi. They're not white Europeans. But let's not let that interfere with her own racism.
tricia, while in hindsight the USA clearly could have, perhaps even should have done something different along the way, like sanctioning Israel by withholding arms or other kinds of support until Israeli leaders, especially Netanyahu, returned to lawful behavior by observing original UN boundaries and the rules of international law. What I believe has happened is that we (USA) have encountered a fundamental conflict in values between whether it is more important to support the only functioning democracy in the Middle East or support the rule of law.
Israel is a democracy for Israelis but it is not a democracy for Palestinians.Israel is and has been an apartheid state.
As an American & jewish, I am have been struggling because of the very points G Mamlet raises. It hits home that most have no knowledge of how world history’s treatment of a distict population - the jewish population. Jews have been targeted for annhiliation for as long has history is been recorded be it Roman era, to Crusades, to the Holocaust. Whats troubling is that so many take the position that we Jews or any anyone else should not be speaking of this history because by speaking this history in an effort to bring context to the current war, that somehow is an effort to negate the suffering other groups, cultures, or groups that are or have suffered at the hands of others trying the same to them. Nothing could be further than the truth. To those who are sincerely interested understanding the nuances and facts behind this war I highly recommend the series of interviews conducted by Ezra Klein, podcasts from Nov 7, 10, & 17 that explores the various perspectives (Palastinan, Israeli and a progressive Rabbi) about 10/7 attack.
Antisemitism is deep within both Islamic and Christian cultures and has been for many centuries. The Jews who have rebuilt their ancient homeland are well aware of this and the goal is to obviously to have a safer place where they are not the oppressed minority. I can understand that. Even Jews who have assimilated in other countries are in danger when the ancient hates are aroused.
Americans should realize that European colonists did the same thing. Our ancestors invaded a populated country and, after more than 200 years of conflict, killed enough of the natives and took enough of their land to control them and stop the wars. That is what I expect Israel to have to do. It worked. I hope they can do it with less bloodshed and in a shorter time.
Our natives eventually assimilated to a large degree, and even those still living on reservations are no longer warlike. That should be the goal for Palestinians after enough of the warriors are killed or defeated. There is no other way.
The idea that our colonizing "effort" was successful because US indigenous people are "assimilated and no longer warlike" - that that is a hoped for outcome sort of strikes me a little bit WRONG! Yes there is a comparison to be made, but seeing this outcome as successful? What it took for that so-called successful outcome was hundreds of years of forced assimilation - forced removal of Indian children from their homes - reservations that have the bare minimum of utilities and services - lack of jobs - I could keep going on.
So I would hope that the Palestinian people (who are left) dont have to accept that kind of "goal".]
Harry, you are effectively advocating for a Jewish Lebensraum policy. Nazi Lebensraum was significantly modeled after the US Manifest Destiny justification for the murder and displacement of the American indigenous population. Adolf Hitler is quoted as saying: "... there's only one duty: to Germanize this country [Russia] by the immigration of Germans and to look upon the natives as Redskins.”
This Nazi plan for Lebensraum was formalized in Generalplan Ost. The general idea was to exterminate the population of Ukraine and replace that population with German farmers.
I recommend "Bloodlands" by Timothy Snyder for a fuller history.
I highly recommend Miko Peled’s book The General’s Son.
I highly recommend Miko Peled’s The General’s Son.22 years old but still relevant today.
Totally agree. Austin is a voice of calm and reason and humanity. We need more like him.
'A Gaza hospital evacuated, four fragile lives and a grim discovery' (WAPO)
'A nurse at al-Nasr hospital was caring for premature babies. Then he faced the most difficult decision of his life.'
By Miriam Berger, Evan Hill and Hazem Balousha
December 2, 2023 at 11:02 p.m. EST
'JERUSALEM — The nurse in the besieged hospital was caring for five fragile babies. Infants, born premature, their parents’ whereabouts after a month of war unknown. Now he faced the most difficult decision of his life.'
'It was the height of Israel’s assault on northern Gaza last month, and al-Nasr Children’s Hospital was a war zone. The day before, airstrikes had cut off the Gaza City facility’s oxygen supplies. Israeli tanks had surrounded the hospital complex, and the Israel Defense Forces were calling and texting the doctors, urging them to leave.'
'But ambulances couldn’t safely reach al-Nasr to transport the wounded, and doctors refused to leave the facility without their patients.'
'The five premature babies were particularly vulnerable. They needed oxygen, and medication administered at regular intervals. There were no portable respirators or incubators to transport them. Without life support, the nurse feared, they wouldn’t survive an evacuation.'
'Then the IDF delivered an ultimatum, al-Nasr director Bakr Qaoud told The Washington Post: Get out or be bombarded. An Israeli official, meanwhile, provided an assurance that ambulances would be arranged to retrieve the patients.'
'The nurse, a Palestinian man who works with Paris-based Doctors Without Borders, saw no choice. He assessed his charges and picked up the strongest one — the baby he thought likeliest to bear a temporary cut to his oxygen supply. He left the other four on their breathing machines, reluctantly, and with his wife, their children and the one baby, headed south.'
“I felt like I was leaving my own children behind,” said the nurse, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to protect his privacy. “If we had the ability to take them, we would have, [but] if we took them off the oxygen they would have died.”
'Two weeks later, the pause in hostilities allowed a Gazan journalist to venture into the hospital. In the neonatal intensive care unit, Mohammed Balousha made the awful discovery.'
'The decomposing bodies of the four babies. Eaten by worms. Blackened by mold. Mauled, Balousha said, by stray dogs.'
“A terrible and horrific scene,” 'he told The Post. He took video.'
'The grim discovery was a reminder of the harrowing civilian toll of Israel’s war to eradicate Hamas, a campaign that has spared neither hospitals nor children. Thousands have been killed.'
'The current hostilities erupted on Oct. 7, when Hamas and allied fighters streamed out of Gaza to attack Israeli communities near the enclave, killed around 1,200 Israelis and kidnapped 240 more. Israel responded with a full siege, airstrikes and ground operations that have killed more than 15,200 Palestinians, according to the Gaza health ministry, including thousands of children.'
'Israel has long accused Hamas of hiding command-and-control centers in hospitals; the Biden administration has backed the claim. Hamas and Gaza medical staff deny it.'
'Still, Israeli commanders have made the territory’s health care infrastructure a focus of the military campaign. A month into the war, that included al-Nasr.'
'It was Nov. 10 when Israeli forces told al-Nasr’s staff they had to leave, according to Qaoud, the hospital director. “They sent us a map for a safe route,” he told The Post in a WhatsApp message. “They gave us half an hour to go out. Otherwise, they will bombard the hospital.”
'An official at the adjacent al-Rantisi pediatric cancer center seemed to receive an assurance that ambulances would retrieve patients from both al-Rantisi and al-Nasr. In a telephone conversation with the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories, an arm of Israel’s defense ministry, the al-Rantisi official requested ambulances. In a recording of that call released by the Israel Defense Forces, a senior COGAT officer responds in Arabic:' “No problem.” (WAPO) See gifted link for the article in full below.
https://wapo.st/47GKLm8
No matter who you think is in the right or wrong; children, babies in incubators, children in the hospital for cancer care, doctors or nurses should never be in harm's way. This should be the case in every conflict.
Omg those innocents, and the poor nurse.
So where are all those Hamas tunnels under the hospital then?
Fern, thank you for sharing Austin’s words. The ones that jumped out at me were “ And if you drive them into the arms of the enemy, you replace a tactical victory with a strategic defeat.” One thing that the US learned in our wars is that the relatives of civilians killed in the fog of war tend to carry ill feelings towards those who caused the deaths. This may be the intent of Hamas: first they kill as many as they can and then, when Israel responds with a civilian casualty rich response, use the civilian casualties to engender hated of Israel (and Jews).
Thank you, Fern. I’m always grateful for your research and the knowledge and facts. On all subjects we discuss and need to understand.
I sense a connections between Mr Schummers and Secretary Austin's. History and commitments honored and leadership of America to thread the needle that seams the tapestry of civil and civilian lives of people's seeking secure comity and freedom from persecution, even that of one minority against another. Thanks Fern for adding this in. Schummer was leading the larger cause that applies as well today in the strife that is Israel and the survival and freedom of Palestians andJews no matter where they live ... or, don't continue to exist.
Fred, I am not comfortable with the US' relationship to Israeli under Netanyahu and the, to my mind, extreme, right-wing government. There has been a lot of talk from Biden, Blinken...Harris Austin but what action? There does not appear to be any constraint on Netanyahu's part concerning the deathtrap of Gaza that he and Hamas have constructed.
Joanne,
I also think we need to separate those, like me, who are not even slightly in support of the Netanyahu attempt to keep power by bombing Gaza into the dust, from anti-Semites. The whole operation reminds me too much of George W. Bush's approach to the attack on the World Trade Center.
Bush's approach? Find a country with no military to support the civilian population and bomb that civilian population into the dust. That would be Afghanistan, even though not a single Afghan citizen was on any plane on 9/11/2001. That would be Iraq after lies of Weapons of Mass Destruction.
I was not in favor of the wanton bombing and destruction and civilian death in Afghanistan just to make Bush "look good" and I am not now in favor of the wanton destruction of civilian Gaza by Netanyahu for the same, exact reason.
Exactly
Mike S: Yes! Bomb the hell out of the wrong target--that'll teach 'em!
I imagine Netanyahu's approach will have the same success as Bush's. Look at where the Taliban are now.
There were no Iraqi pilots either.
Let’s try to be optimistic and not think it’s on deaf ears. I would like to be hopeful.
Susan: Just as you are able to have an optimistic perspective--which is, of course, based on your own experience and knowledge--my perspective is informed by my own experience and knowledge.
No, you have to have hope. If you don’t there is nothing.
Hope is good. We can have hope. We can have optimism. But that won't lead us to a world where speeches like Schumer's are not required. Over and over and over again.
Antisemitism and anti any group of fellow people is a cancer of the human species that has never been excised. Never will be. But it can be reduced like a tumor under radiation or chemo.
We need to have a realistic acceptance of the fact that Joanne is spot on right. Those who ARE the cancer will not hear or care about Schumer's speech.
It's the folks in the middle - who are not the cancer - who minimize the threat, who ignore the danger and allow the cancer to grow that I hope Schumer reaches. It is everyone's job to support Schumer's words and repeat them. Otherwise, we enable the metastasis.
Susan, telling people to "have hope" without recognizing the full extent and reality that there are millions of humans who really want to kill Jews...and Blacks...and Muslims is not productive. Let's have hope. But let's get real. This is a war across the planet. Always has been. Let's shrink the cancer. It will take more than hope. It will take a firm grip on reality with a steely resolve and an intolerance for intolerance.
I fully agree with you Bill Alstrom.
Susan--with respect, your personal views do not entitle you to try to enforce mine. I of course welcome fact-based input that provides varying points of view. Thank you for respecting my right to form my perspective.
Seeing things from a clear perspective after knowing all the facts can lead to hope. But if not hope it can lead to the need to mobilize our “troops”.
I’m not deaf and I’m not stupid enough to believe this act of propaganda is going to help a damn thing. This puts Jews in MORE danger. It legitimizes the current genocide and yes the OCCUPATION OF PALESTINE. From the River to the Sea Palestine will be free. Is indeed a call to end occupation please stop with the intentional propaganda. This is about colonization and the inhumane treatment of the Palestinian people. Shame on all of you.
Tricia, I think you need to do some self study on the history of the region. Compassion and hope for both Palestinians and Jews is the answer. A two state solution is the answer but legitimizing terrorism is dangerous and shows that you are in fact maybe a little deaf on the matter.
Kimber, I think you need to do some studying by people other than the one supporting your thoughts. I need not drop my vitae here but Inhave spent the last 30 years studying, meeting and working with people in the region. I love how the white people decided the two state solution is the answer because you haven’t actually done any of your own research you have only repeated the propaganda you have been fed. Has anyone asked the Palestinians what they want or need? Do your own research instead of trying to imply you are above someone else because of the way you think. Not a good look for compassion. Restorative justice is not shoving our ideas down the indigenous people throats.
As a self-proclaimed student of the region. What has Hamas done for most of the Palestinians? They have spent a lot of money on weapons and tunnels whose only aim is terrorism. How would you suggest negotiating with a group that is sworn to see you completely eliminated? Or do you think that the population of Israel should just pack up and leave?
Would love for you to hear the conclusions your 30 years of study have led you to? What is the solution? The destruction Israel and the Jews? Because that is the mission statement of Hamas, so if that is what you believe you are in fact supporting terrorism. Would love to hear your educated ideas on a solution instead of vitriol.
First of all it’s not our decision. It’s the decision of the remaining Palestinians and the Israeli’s who do. Support living together in peace. I don’t pretend to have a solution but I have listened to people. Are you aware there are a separate class of citizens in Israel called Arab citizens of Israel? Did you know they do not have the same rights as Jewish Israeli’s? The whole point is to stop being so arrogant that we have the answers. Start listening to the people who are telling you what the problems are. Look at Hands of Peace and Seeds of Peace. for 22 years we have been bringing these teenagers together to learn from one another to see the humanity in one another. Educate yourselves. Learn. Stop telling other people in regions you have NO KNOWLEDGE of what they should do. It is so colonial and settler of this conversation to be so incredibly uneducated about the actual issue and shut down the actually oppressed’s voice.
Let us remember that the West Bank became occupied because the Arabs began a war in 1967 and they lost territory. Israel did not ask for that war. In my opinion, all the conquered land should have been given back immediately… but life is not so simple. War is war. May reconciliation happen one day.,,, when talks begin again.
Wow, you would like to join Hamas and annihilate Israel? Where would you have suggested the remaining Jews in Europe go? No country would allow them in and Palestine was the historical home of the Jews. Would you like to give the native Americans back all their land? Should the Australians give back their land to their aboriginal population? If you think for a second that "From the River to the Sea Palestine will be Free" does not smack of antisemitism then I guess we don't know what antisemitism is!! If you were a European Jew and survived the holocaust where in the world would go to feel relatively safe? Maybe you believe that all the persecution Jews have experienced is their own fault. If so then antisemitism is justifiable. You can thank your lucky stars you don't belong to a minority that is subject to discrimination.
A history lesson may help
You think? Sheesh. I am gobsmacked by the ignorance on display in these comments. Willful ignorance. Heather's letter emphasized many of the key points of Senator Schumer's historic speech and I'm reading flagrantly anti-semitic talking points, finger wagging from up on high? I am so disappointed.
I would love for you to go look up the word semitic- go educate yourself and then come talk to me about being gobsmacked. You have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about.
We know what Semitic is, You're going to use its definition as proof that you are not antisemitic? Nice try.
It sounds to me like you are the one in need of the history lessons. I’m not calling for the destruction of Jews. Stop listening with your propaganda ears.
Genocide defined: Genocide is the intentional destruction of a people in whole or in part. In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group".
Israel has targeted the Hamas who use their own people as human shields. Could the Israelis have done more to save lives, maybe yes, but they believe that rightly or wrongly that Hamas with the backing of some Palestinians only want to annihilate Israel.
Schumer’s message certainly was not covered by main stream media. I was totally unaware of it.
His message requires the reader to be capable of rational thinking! Main stream media is about echoing negativity!
So now you are aware - please share your awareness, thanks.
Too long a message to convey in a 10 second tiktok video.
Even if they hear it, will they understand it?
Nope.
And that is your point and I undrestand it. That is why I chose to second your comment.
Some have no ears
You’re so above everyone with your Israeli progoanda. You have no idea. Go read something by Ilan Pape or Gabor Mate or Rashid Khalidi just go educate yourselves and stop self aggrandizing your moral superiority. You seriously have NO IDEA what you are talking about.
As with so many humanitarian messages, the people who need to understand Schumer's message, will not be hearing it . . .
When Martin Luther King, Jr. gave his hundreds of sermons and speeches, most of his messages have been lost through time. But, several haven't and they continue to inspire people from all walks of life around the planet on a daily basis.
Schumer's speech was potentially aspirational and if the worlds inspire even one person, it was worth it.
Should a preacher cancel his service if only one person attends? Perhaps that one person is so inspired they make the world a more tolerant and better place.
Hi Joanne. I clicked on your photo and note that you have written a couple of very interesting books. Congratulations!
Thanks, so much, Annie! Please don't hesitate to contact me if you are interested in learning more about these very young Polish-Jewish women who fiercely and successfully defied the Nazis and their collaborators.
Joanne, my father was born in Poland. The village he was raised in is now in the Ukraine. He was raised to be a Zionist and I am afraid he would’ve been one of the settlers on the West Bank if he hadn’t come to the US. My mother was from Berlin. What I wanted to say is that Leon Uris wrote the book, “Mila 18”. I read that in my early 20’s and telephoned my dad. He named off every character who were in the Resistance. I asked him when he had read that book and he replied “Ten years ago”. Asked him how he remembered all of the names and he told me they had all been his friends. Gave me chills and it was then I realized Uris used actual names for the people in his stories.
So interesting--Did your father spend any time in the Warsaw Ghetto? The setting of Uris' "Mila 18" was the Warsaw Ghetto. Just like the Polin Museum of the History of Polish Jews, the monument to Mila 18 stands on the ground of the former Ghetto. An interesting aside, here in Las Vegas, there is a beautiful Warsaw Ghetto Uprising Remembrance Garden, constructed of stones salvaged from the destroyed Ghetto. I am honored and grateful to have been able to make presentations there.
My father was raised in a town known for oil and wax called Borslav. He never knew his father as he died in WWI, thus he and sister lived with his grandfather and many aunts and uncles. Truly, his life in Borslav was almost exactly like what you see in “Fiddler on the Roof”. As far as I know, his relatives, not his mother nor his sister, were burned in gas ovens or killed in the oil fields.
My dad had, as a young man, been involved with “scouts”. That’s what he called them. Through the scouts, his eyes were opened to Zionism. I am not aware of any of his friends being in the Warsaw Ghetto and the reason being is that he started going into dementia in his 70’s. I do suppose, however, some of his friends ended up there. In 1967, he took himself to Israel to visit Yad Vashem. He met up with old friends he had been raised with which excited him. While he was there, the Six Day War broke out. That was a little harrowing but he was finally able to get back home.
Thanks for letting me know about the museum in Las Vegas. I will have to go to that the next time I am able to go.
Thanks, so much, Marlene Lerner-Bigley, for sharing parts of your father's fascinating story. There were many Jewish youth groups in Europe that were referred to as "scouts." His "scout" group might have been a branch of the "Haoved Hadati." Please do feel free to contact me if you plan to come to Las Vegas. While we don't have a Jewish museum, per se, we do have an outstanding Holocaust Resource Center, as well as the outdoor Warsaw Ghetto Uprising Memorial Garden. https://lvhresourcecenter.com
Huh. I didn't expect this interesting thread. I just ordered one of your books. Of my extended family that came from Poland, the women died at the hands of the Nazis ata greater rate than the men, who were more eligible to be selected to work vs. to be gassed.
It is my take that a huge dichotomy exists between what the government of Israel does vs the beliefs of the Jewish people of Israel. The same for Hamas and the Palestinian people.
Israeli Government cages the Palestinian people in a hopeless concentration camp with no escape; lives lived only to die in squalor; for what, to keep Israel from being integrated with people they think don’t belong there? It seems that Israel (as a state) wants to maintain a purer citizenship and uses the fact that they have been so persecuted by “others” that their only hope of survival is “to persecute” the “others” of Palestine. Is this the will of all Israel people or just of their elected politicians? To me, an average American who is not fully educated in the Minutia, I see a duplicity in how Israel treats Palestinians exactly the same way they don’t want the rest of the world to treat them. I don’t think I’m alone in thinking this
As Israel refuses to rein in the settlers in the West Bank, the glaring hypocrisy of the Israeli Government causes people like me to ask Senator Schumer to put the “shoe that oppressed” on the other foot. Is it possible that people that (wrongly) commit acts of violence against innocent Jews are confusing their victims with the actions of the Israeli Government? I certainly wouldn’t to be attacked by a terrorist that confused me with Trump
Mirror my entire post here with Hamas. Hamas and Bibi live in the same sphere
In order for people like me to understand how to protect the innocent Jewish people of the world I believe that the Jewish people need to understand what Israel is doing to Palestinian citizens and demand that Israel become more introspective
I’m sure my lack of understanding will create big pushback here, but I think Schumer’s speech was a bit one sided in his plea for defense of Jews
Where can the Palestinians go? They have no Promised Land it seems to me that Jews would be able to relate to that
I sadly fear that it is nearly a universal human tendency to seek outside or "other" forces when faced by evidence of human hatred and intolerance. 400 years ago Shakespeare recognized this need in his play Julius Caeser when he wrote "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars / But in ourselves." This remains an apt description of the human need to assign fault outside of self.
JohnM: So tragically true. And more recently, Walt Kelly's Pogo, whose comment about humankind's environmental destruction is equally applicable to humankind's self-destruction: "We have seen the enemy, and he is us."
Extremism must always be met with consequences.
And hearing. When working with various disabilities, I concluded that deafness was the most debilitating one that I ran across. So many have working ears, but choose not to hear. Or is it the closed minds.
Closed minds... "to what" ? Therein lies a universal story.
To what? If that is a legitimate question, then the answer is ‘anything that doesn’t suit one’s established perceptions.’ As my bumper sticker reads...
Don’t believe everything you think.
The "closed minds" which shows up so much is an antagonistic phrase, usually aimed at the speaker's opponents. Yes, I think my question is pretty legit, since human beings so often frame their beliefs, facts, values as antagonistic to alternative bfvs. GOPers get sifted through the same process as Dems. In short one has a mind "open" to one set or other of bfvs and necessarily "closed" to bfvs which are antagonistic, ie incompatible or contradictory or opposed, to yours usually your group alliance. All the name calling in the world doesn't change the minds of your opponents, including the "closed mind" call. Good call on your "dont believe"... the fun being to disentangle your beliefs, reminds me of the "wisdom to know the difference" prayer.
It is very uncomfortable to untangle one’s beliefs to be open to consideration of another perspective. I never thought of the phrase ‘closed minds’ as antagonistic but that is interesting. I personally see cognitive dissonance as a more accurate explanation. Maybe because it doesn’t carry the same negativity as the word antagonistic IMHO. Thanks for
the exchange, Frank.
Hatred the soul of all those who are anti.........
Silence isn't an option. If what needs to be heard isn't said no chance that anyone will hear it. But I feel your frustration. The Maggats...and likely too many folks across the board...refuse to listen to what they don't want to hear. How do we break through? Persistence?
Lucy Buxton--I'm sorry if my comment that the people who needed to hear and understand Schumer's words the most, wouldn't hear it, conveyed any thought of ever remaining silent on this topic. Implicit are the two nuances of "hearing." 1. Actual physical hearing; 2. Understanding the implications of what is being heard. Silence in the face of fascism is complicity. Those of us who understand this have not, and will not been silent. It is our way of life. My issue is with people who think that cheery aphorisms and exhortations about optimism are sufficient responses to fascism. Effective speaking up and effective political action require an informed, insightful, impassioned, commitment that is based in reality. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify my position.
I agree that this must be heard, so we should indeed do so.
History will not rest here. This morning's article in IHE is relevant and legitimate. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/faculty-issues/academic-freedom/2023/12/01/uc-faculty-members-oppose-viewpoint-neutral-middle?mc_cid=817ac00f85&mc_eid=2d13197685