Good question Ann. From the prior 15 boxes of documents that were taken back from tfg & delivered to the US Archives, the DOJ has a 100 page inventory of his stolen documents including confidential & top scret records. Let a grand jury see what was in Trumps locked safe instead of boxes in the "beautiful" Mar a Lago basement.
Bryan, I thought of you, along with Bone Spurs, early this morning, while we're on the Paper Trail. Now, we are really talking and searching for THE PAPER -- THE DOCUMENTS! See you later, Bryan.
FERN, you know I like the US code Section 2071 penalty, .... tfg would be barred from holding public office. Likely, the DOJ has a drafted complaint based on the15 boxes The FBI is searching for documents that prove criminal intent not more "love letters" from North Korea. "Don't mess with the Archivist." i admit it; I LOVE DOCUMENTS.
Of course, you nailed it, Bryan. Here's some more folks:
'Early reports that the F.B.I. search of former President Donald J. Trump’s residence in Florida related to an investigation into whether he had unlawfully taken government files when he left the White House focused attention on an obscure criminal law barring removal of official records. The penalties for breaking that law include disqualification from holding any federal office.'
'Because Mr. Trump is widely believed to be preparing to run for president again in 2024, that unusual penalty raised the prospect that he might be legally barred from returning to the White House.'
'Specifically, the law in question — Section 2071 of Title 18 of the United States Code — makes it a crime if someone who has custody of government documents or records “willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies or destroys” them.' (NYTimes) See gifted link below.
Heard from a credible retired judge that US code could be superseded by Constitution which has only 2 requirements…born here and of a certain age (35?) Said if US code used would likely end up in courts forever ending finally at MAGA SCOTUS.
"US officials said there is no detailed record, even in classified files, of Trump’s face-to-face interactions with the Russian leader at five locations over the past two years,” the Post reported."
Please keep in mind that within the State Department 'interpreters' and 'translators' serve different functions and follow different protocols. Interpreters work with spoken language and translators with
written texts. Their work procedures and work products are different.
"And the other reason is the kinds of notes that interpreters take in order to do consecutive interpretation differ radically from the kinds of notes that substantive officers take when they are the official note-takers. Our interpretation notes are based on our short-term memory. They're full of little symbols and squiggles and arrows.
Basically, what interpreters do when they're taking notes is they draw a kind of road map through the material they're hearing. They are immediately thereafter able to reconstruct this piece of material. But if you show them those notes in two or three weeks, their eyes would glaze over and say..."
The fact that there is no official transcript of these meetings should be enough to charge him with dereliction of duty. Unprecedented and a clue to what was to come
It is my guess that there needed to be a stenographer to report (on a steno machine) the oral remarks in English made by tfg and the remarks made by Putin as orally interpreted by the interpreter. Then a written transcript (in English) is made by the stenographer for publication. That was my experience in the Carter days, but I have no memory of any one-on-one meetings like is being discussed here.
In my day, I was employed by a private firm who contracted out to the White House to perform the services of providing official transcripts. We worked inside the WH, but were not employees of the government. Makes for better transparency, don't you think?
Here's an interesting article about one WH stenographer that worked in the Obama administration as well as the beginning of 45's.
"We type up our transcripts from our audio, so it hasn't been tampered with and it not only goes to the press office, the press, but also the presidential archive," she says. "That's really important to have an accurate recording at all times, especially when the press is involved, just to make sure that we are recording the truth and that no one has complicated that."
Trump's criminal conversations take place with Putin directly, and when he is on the golf course. No notes. Lindsay Graham went from Trump critic to Trump ass-kisser after one of those golf course meetings, which I assume involved blackmail.
You're welcome, MaryPat! Unless things have dramatically changed, it would not be the interpreters who would be making the official record. It's the stenographers.
Morning Lynell. I’m just heading out to start another “help a friend move” event. This time I’m driving a 26 foot rental truck from Medford to Seattle.
The fact that the only people in the secret meeting were either russians or that russian spy, whooops..American president...should have been the subject of great concern to someone...it is obvious something bad occurred... yet no investigation...WTF!?
“ Basically, what interpreters do when they're taking notes is they draw a kind of road map through the material they're hearing. They are immediately thereafter able to reconstruct this piece of material.”
Your description was really helpful for me to understand how note-taking for these different purposes differs so greatly!
The quote is from the NPR interview cited in my comment: "Our next guest served 18 years as head of interpreters at the State Department. She was in the room interpreting when U.S. officials sat down with Fidel Castro, with Augusto Pinochet and many others Stephanie van Reigersberg, welcome to ALL THING CONSIDERED."
Burnt, shredded, flushed not very long after the meeting. Every translated word imprinted in the Presidential mind, every pressure of the Russian handshake treasured in memory.
Ann and Jeri and others -- I have this dim recollection that tfg confiscated the translator's notes as the meeting ended. Something like that. So that nothing could go to the press. Part of this recollection is that there were no other witnesses in this meeting between tfg and Putin other than the translators/interpreters. Just 4 people? This is something we could hope that HCR could investigate. Or one of us, who has the time and dogged determination!!
That's my recollection as well, that he took the notes....or perhaps that he allowed no note taking. I believe we knew that within a day or two of the meeting.
I believe the reports on that meeting have indicated that Trump excluded any others form that meeting. It was Trump, Putin, and Putin's translator. I wish I could remember which of several sources reported that...
Good morning everyone. I'm reading over all the comments and the replies to the comments and reports of what various sources and personal recollections suggest, and my first thought is the wish that we had, somewhere, a journalist or researcher to map all this out so we at least had a more or less solid summary of who has written about this, how many completely different opinions or pieces of evidence we have for how many crimes. I'd be interested to know, for instance, which of the mainstream media, have similar evidence and take similar positions on yesterday's search of Trump's basement and safe.
Failing something like a summary, I would have to say that, although reading about what has seemed a slow, tedious process, has tried my patience, Professor Richardson's Letter today makes it clear that it's producing results. I hope that's right.
Both the Washington Post and New your times have had recent columns listing the administration's accomplishments. Check out some of the opinion columnists like Jennifer Rubin. Also check out the comments section (but this can be laborious and require a thick skin).
Do you know I did something this year I never, ever would have imagined. I cancelled my subscription to the NYTimes. My news sources at this moment are Letters from an American, Robert Hubbell's Newsletter, the Washington Post occasionally when I can read it without getting myself into a state over either their misleading headlines or the kinds of errors in grammar, usage, and just plain typos that indicate they save money by doing away with editors and proofreaders. Oh, and I confess to actually subscribing to the quirky, fascinating, intelligent slate.com. I have no idea what any of that information has to do with your comment, John. You're right about Jennifer Rubin. I got disgusted by the Times doing what all the mainstream media do--absolutely creating the news. I got especially miffed at the Times because their writers are the best in the business and so do the best job of manipulating our thought-life.
Here endeth the First Lesson. And clearly time for my afternoon tea.
I kept The New Yorker. I have found, over many years, back when the magazines were piling up in corners, that I can't live without it. The writing is so good that I will read articles on subjects that are of no interest to me just because of the writing. When I taught a senior elective that I called something like "The personal and Social Essay" (not quite right) our "text books" were The New Yorker; Newsweek (before they changed their format to Faux People Magazine) when there were essays; a couple ;of volumes of Joan Didion's essays. The essay assignment the students said was the hardest thing they'd ever had to write. First, we read a lot of movie reviews in The New Yorker (which, as I'll bet you know, are fully developed essays), then we took 3 or four class periods to watch a film, "LA Confidential." Everybody loved the movie until I told them the assignment. Write a review of the movie in the style of a New Yorker review. They moaned, they groaned. Then they got together several times on the weekend to watch the movie again, taking notes and talking about it. Then they wrote the reviews. Best set of essays I've ever gotten from a class. I love Slate. The serious articles are top quality and, if the news becomes too much, one can always read Dear Prudence.
That's a good one to vet, Patricia. Haven't heard it before. Wouldn't surprise me. There are a few supremely good investigative reporters who might be on to this who subject now.
Where is the translator’s transcript of the President Trump/Putin private meeting?
Have wondered that for years. Time for translator to start singing
Good question Ann. From the prior 15 boxes of documents that were taken back from tfg & delivered to the US Archives, the DOJ has a 100 page inventory of his stolen documents including confidential & top scret records. Let a grand jury see what was in Trumps locked safe instead of boxes in the "beautiful" Mar a Lago basement.
Bryan, I thought of you, along with Bone Spurs, early this morning, while we're on the Paper Trail. Now, we are really talking and searching for THE PAPER -- THE DOCUMENTS! See you later, Bryan.
FERN, you know I like the US code Section 2071 penalty, .... tfg would be barred from holding public office. Likely, the DOJ has a drafted complaint based on the15 boxes The FBI is searching for documents that prove criminal intent not more "love letters" from North Korea. "Don't mess with the Archivist." i admit it; I LOVE DOCUMENTS.
Of course, you nailed it, Bryan. Here's some more folks:
'Early reports that the F.B.I. search of former President Donald J. Trump’s residence in Florida related to an investigation into whether he had unlawfully taken government files when he left the White House focused attention on an obscure criminal law barring removal of official records. The penalties for breaking that law include disqualification from holding any federal office.'
'Because Mr. Trump is widely believed to be preparing to run for president again in 2024, that unusual penalty raised the prospect that he might be legally barred from returning to the White House.'
'Specifically, the law in question — Section 2071 of Title 18 of the United States Code — makes it a crime if someone who has custody of government documents or records “willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies or destroys” them.' (NYTimes) See gifted link below.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/08/us/politics/donald-trump-president-criminal-law.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxftm3iWka3DFDm4SiPkORJCH_0bRZKF4INc02T2fSJpdKqIqXLlq1OJEPkBgTRXtqYGFnZUDKiFwrYusGGMq2paHFZYJzQjXVEjrYuFu2O_4-BucLDm7BfDC1X0mJw9k8cB6Ilmp2WgPka_DDrVy2Nhh3fcnVZt_QTgDYXWLrOCoX0slQKiObRDY7gQyWe9LC3qEzZPHteV2IEgFAknGTXh__W829NpXXdsSN63_JBYkE9Hs1fRTUic7adf0WOBiAtTchL5osrXSqByTycvQx_s-F65cvLysoX8Uqhi5QGAu6ZELiCNe_amY&smid=url-share
Bryan, I know that you'll be back with more. You're more than a HOUND DOG but so glad you've got the bite we're looking for.
elvis presley-hound dog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzQ8GDBA8Is
FERN, I have caught a rabbit or two in Court back when ....
What hat did you pull them from? I'm in the dark, Bryan, and don't like that, so, please elaborate.
Heard from a credible retired judge that US code could be superseded by Constitution which has only 2 requirements…born here and of a certain age (35?) Said if US code used would likely end up in courts forever ending finally at MAGA SCOTUS.
The toilet paper trail
🦓?
Sniffing all about for the papers Bone Spurs took. Bryan is an excellent legal papers/documents hound. Cannot wait to hear his bark.
Who let the dogs out?
🐕🙂
Can always use a good canine unit, Marypat.
"US officials said there is no detailed record, even in classified files, of Trump’s face-to-face interactions with the Russian leader at five locations over the past two years,” the Post reported."
Please keep in mind that within the State Department 'interpreters' and 'translators' serve different functions and follow different protocols. Interpreters work with spoken language and translators with
written texts. Their work procedures and work products are different.
"And the other reason is the kinds of notes that interpreters take in order to do consecutive interpretation differ radically from the kinds of notes that substantive officers take when they are the official note-takers. Our interpretation notes are based on our short-term memory. They're full of little symbols and squiggles and arrows.
Basically, what interpreters do when they're taking notes is they draw a kind of road map through the material they're hearing. They are immediately thereafter able to reconstruct this piece of material. But if you show them those notes in two or three weeks, their eyes would glaze over and say..."
https://www.state.gov/interpreting-ols/
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/media-and-communication/interpreters-and-translators.htm
https://www.state.gov/about-us-ols/translating/
https://www.vox.com/world/2019/1/14/18182455/trump-russia-putin-notes-wapo-wsj
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-has-concealed-details-of-his-face-to-face-encounters-with-putin-from-senior-officials-in-administration/2019/01/12/65f6686c-1434-11e9-b6ad-9cfd62dbb0a8_story.html
https://www.npr.org/2019/01/14/685276555/former-white-house-interpreter-weighs-in-on-possibility-of-subpoena
The fact that there is no official transcript of these meetings should be enough to charge him with dereliction of duty. Unprecedented and a clue to what was to come
It is my guess that there needed to be a stenographer to report (on a steno machine) the oral remarks in English made by tfg and the remarks made by Putin as orally interpreted by the interpreter. Then a written transcript (in English) is made by the stenographer for publication. That was my experience in the Carter days, but I have no memory of any one-on-one meetings like is being discussed here.
In my day, I was employed by a private firm who contracted out to the White House to perform the services of providing official transcripts. We worked inside the WH, but were not employees of the government. Makes for better transparency, don't you think?
Here's an interesting article about one WH stenographer that worked in the Obama administration as well as the beginning of 45's.
"We type up our transcripts from our audio, so it hasn't been tampered with and it not only goes to the press office, the press, but also the presidential archive," she says. "That's really important to have an accurate recording at all times, especially when the press is involved, just to make sure that we are recording the truth and that no one has complicated that."
https://www.krvs.org/2018-07-23/ex-white-house-stenographer-with-no-official-transcript-trump-can-muddle-the-truth
Since my day, audio recordings took the place of steno machines. And during Obama's administration, stenographers became part of the WH staff.
https://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2014/01/obama-puts-stenographers-on-staff-182483
Trump's criminal conversations take place with Putin directly, and when he is on the golf course. No notes. Lindsay Graham went from Trump critic to Trump ass-kisser after one of those golf course meetings, which I assume involved blackmail.
Yes. Rumor has it one black robed judge retired early under similar circumstances.
Wow! Thanks for inside info Lynell!
You're welcome, MaryPat! Unless things have dramatically changed, it would not be the interpreters who would be making the official record. It's the stenographers.
Morning, Lynell!
Morning, Alexander!!
Fascinating!!!
Thanks, Ally...Morning!!
Morning Lynell. I’m just heading out to start another “help a friend move” event. This time I’m driving a 26 foot rental truck from Medford to Seattle.
Jeri:
The fact that the only people in the secret meeting were either russians or that russian spy, whooops..American president...should have been the subject of great concern to someone...it is obvious something bad occurred... yet no investigation...WTF!?
I can't imagine what people were thinking when he went behind closed doors with Putin. Even I did not like that and felt it was very fishy!
Jeri, hoping I'd see a post from you today! I am thinking that you need a Dark Brandon tshirt to wear at your assisted living facility!! :)
Seems that what you don't report to the IRS is as significant as what you do.
“ Basically, what interpreters do when they're taking notes is they draw a kind of road map through the material they're hearing. They are immediately thereafter able to reconstruct this piece of material.”
Your description was really helpful for me to understand how note-taking for these different purposes differs so greatly!
The quote is from the NPR interview cited in my comment: "Our next guest served 18 years as head of interpreters at the State Department. She was in the room interpreting when U.S. officials sat down with Fidel Castro, with Augusto Pinochet and many others Stephanie van Reigersberg, welcome to ALL THING CONSIDERED."
Burnt, shredded, flushed not very long after the meeting. Every translated word imprinted in the Presidential mind, every pressure of the Russian handshake treasured in memory.
Putin was counting on him, still is, I’ll wager
Trump was the best bet (for his agenda) Putin ever made.
Trump is Putin's wet dream for how to get back at Hillary, and for how to infiltrate and damage the U.S.
Ann and Jeri and others -- I have this dim recollection that tfg confiscated the translator's notes as the meeting ended. Something like that. So that nothing could go to the press. Part of this recollection is that there were no other witnesses in this meeting between tfg and Putin other than the translators/interpreters. Just 4 people? This is something we could hope that HCR could investigate. Or one of us, who has the time and dogged determination!!
I just replied to Patricia a few minutes ago, attaching a sample of Putin speaking very good English.
That's my recollection as well, that he took the notes....or perhaps that he allowed no note taking. I believe we knew that within a day or two of the meeting.
I believe he took her notes....
Yeah... She needs to be checking her brake lines.
In the toilet
Yup
Great question! I'm sure the DOJ is asking the same and searching, searching. It might have been flushed.
I'm imagining a political cartoon of Trump caught flushing the Constitution down the toilet.
Flushed with pride (hubris).
That transcript was burned, or ripped up and flushed, on-site in Helsinki, I expect.
Where is that translator!?
I believe the reports on that meeting have indicated that Trump excluded any others form that meeting. It was Trump, Putin, and Putin's translator. I wish I could remember which of several sources reported that...
Good morning everyone. I'm reading over all the comments and the replies to the comments and reports of what various sources and personal recollections suggest, and my first thought is the wish that we had, somewhere, a journalist or researcher to map all this out so we at least had a more or less solid summary of who has written about this, how many completely different opinions or pieces of evidence we have for how many crimes. I'd be interested to know, for instance, which of the mainstream media, have similar evidence and take similar positions on yesterday's search of Trump's basement and safe.
Failing something like a summary, I would have to say that, although reading about what has seemed a slow, tedious process, has tried my patience, Professor Richardson's Letter today makes it clear that it's producing results. I hope that's right.
Both the Washington Post and New your times have had recent columns listing the administration's accomplishments. Check out some of the opinion columnists like Jennifer Rubin. Also check out the comments section (but this can be laborious and require a thick skin).
This is a piece by Paul Waldman from yesterday:
https://wapo.st/3SCsyiE
And this is one of the comments:
Borrowed from another poster. All in a little more than 18 months.
And now more Democrats accomplishments
Thank You President Biden
* Reversal of Trump Executive Orders
* American Rescue Plan
* 500 Million Covid-19 Vaccine Shots
* Added 9 Million jobs
* 5% GDP during his first year
* Reduced $380 Billion, a record amount, from the deficit in his first year
* Greatest and Fastest Economic Recovery in History
* Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill
* Climate Change and emissions Executive Orders
* Expanded Affordable Care Act to 5 Million new customers
* Nominated and Confirmed a Historic rate of Judges
* Nominated and Confirmed Ketanji Brown Jackson to Supreme Court
* Largest increase in Manufacturing Jobs in 30 years
* CHIPs Bill
* Made Juneteenth a National Holiday
* Restored the Violence Against Women Act
* 3.5% Unemployment with lowest jobless claims in 50 years
* Over 50 days straight of dropping gas prices
* Estimated Deficit Reduction of $1.7 Trillion for 2nd Year
* Lowest Child Poverty rate in history
* Allow Medicare to negotiate prescription drug prices
* $380 Billion investment in Clean Energy
* $30 Billion in support of Ukraine against Russia
* Renewed Veterans Burn Pit Healthcare bill
* Killing Al Qaeda #1 Ayman Al-Zawahiri
* Implemented Firearms and Gun Safety Bill
Do you know I did something this year I never, ever would have imagined. I cancelled my subscription to the NYTimes. My news sources at this moment are Letters from an American, Robert Hubbell's Newsletter, the Washington Post occasionally when I can read it without getting myself into a state over either their misleading headlines or the kinds of errors in grammar, usage, and just plain typos that indicate they save money by doing away with editors and proofreaders. Oh, and I confess to actually subscribing to the quirky, fascinating, intelligent slate.com. I have no idea what any of that information has to do with your comment, John. You're right about Jennifer Rubin. I got disgusted by the Times doing what all the mainstream media do--absolutely creating the news. I got especially miffed at the Times because their writers are the best in the business and so do the best job of manipulating our thought-life.
Here endeth the First Lesson. And clearly time for my afternoon tea.
I ended my NYT subscription, too, keep the Atlantic. Forgot about Slate. May be a good substitute. I like quirky!
I kept The New Yorker. I have found, over many years, back when the magazines were piling up in corners, that I can't live without it. The writing is so good that I will read articles on subjects that are of no interest to me just because of the writing. When I taught a senior elective that I called something like "The personal and Social Essay" (not quite right) our "text books" were The New Yorker; Newsweek (before they changed their format to Faux People Magazine) when there were essays; a couple ;of volumes of Joan Didion's essays. The essay assignment the students said was the hardest thing they'd ever had to write. First, we read a lot of movie reviews in The New Yorker (which, as I'll bet you know, are fully developed essays), then we took 3 or four class periods to watch a film, "LA Confidential." Everybody loved the movie until I told them the assignment. Write a review of the movie in the style of a New Yorker review. They moaned, they groaned. Then they got together several times on the weekend to watch the movie again, taking notes and talking about it. Then they wrote the reviews. Best set of essays I've ever gotten from a class. I love Slate. The serious articles are top quality and, if the news becomes too much, one can always read Dear Prudence.
That's a good one to vet, Patricia. Haven't heard it before. Wouldn't surprise me. There are a few supremely good investigative reporters who might be on to this who subject now.
Yes, that's it, Patricia.