Yes, the Arlington episode is a disgrace. But just as horrific are the innuendos he's now spewing about the relationship between Harris and Brown and that she owes her career to sexual favors. It is incredibly demeaning and misogynistic - but we all now know that is the point.
I was trained as a Roman historian to be wary of ancient sourc…
Yes, the Arlington episode is a disgrace. But just as horrific are the innuendos he's now spewing about the relationship between Harris and Brown and that she owes her career to sexual favors. It is incredibly demeaning and misogynistic - but we all now know that is the point.
I was trained as a Roman historian to be wary of ancient sources, that ancient historians never bothered to look at the deeper questions in their analysis of history of economics or demographics or, that it all had to do with fear, honor, or self interest, as Thucydides famously stated, or the justice of the gods, as per Herodotus, or, as with the Romans - Livy, Sallust, Tacitus - all about morality.
The Roman tendency to moralize has cast a long shadow and made historians gun-shy about looking to moral causality for explanations. But I am just going to say it straight: I know of no MAGA supporter personally who is not well off. But I know many that are addled and cruel. That they support a spectacularly patent monster - Trump is definitionally what moral (and, we can add, intellectual) collapse looks like.
The frog in the pot being slowly stewed is nearly done - if Trump wins in November it will be fully cooked.
Fear, resentment, ignorance, and faith based irrational habits of mind.
Unswerving allegiance to the GOP.
And strategic self interest. Tax incentives and deregulation for the wealthy. Culture war wins for the racist right wing religious extremists. Oh, and the Supreme Court and federal judiciary - for starts.
I can't remember what NPR called the extremist Christian movement that embraces miracles. But those irrational folks are sadly vulnerable to just about any crazy thing. Welcome anyone who does know as it's driving me nuts. It's not "fabulists" but something like it,
Not sure if this provides the answer or term that you’re searching for — but wow, no WOW — this relates with and to a big part of what we’re having to deal with: Christian nationalism thrives — and is a force for returning Trump to power
This was the first thing I found. According to "real" Christians, these people are not "Christians". If you've read any of my comments, you'll know my feelings on that...
All those people wearing RNC designed "bandages" on their ears at the Republican convention was one of the weirdest things ever. Still, maybe there's a historical precedence for such cultish behavior when voting for a presidential candidate?
Thank you for calling them 'bandages' rather than 'Maxi-Pads.' The latter seemed far too close to 'Tampon Tim' - suggesting that feminine hygiene products are inherently shameful and embarrassing.
I think we all engage in cultish behavior to some degree, at least in episodes, projecting onto some person things that we wish were true, yet are not supported by the evidence. Serious cult involve a commitment to a prohibition against questioning or criticizing the cult. Thoughtcrime.
Ordinary people have been set up to believe those who are really the enemies of our interests since at least the beginning of this country. It's part of a 'strong man' strategy which pits us against a faux enemy (slaves, the poor, women, LGBTQ folks, etc ) so we'll follow the 'strong man' who claims he'll protect us. (And I get this from Heather, so don't ask me for a cite because I'll never be able to find it! It was probably in one of her Chats, anyway!)
I suspect racism is both cause and effect. I think we humans can be irrationally wary of people who seem "different" but also "othering" is a go-to ploy for tyrants. I read a book by a black historian who claimed that racism as we experience it in this country, was systematically promoted by slave owners, not just for self-justification, but to prevent the possibility of abused blacks from uniting in common cause with underprivileged whites against plutocracy. They're still at it.
Some may also be motivated by/ misdirected by FB friend groups. When lonely and isolated, it’s easy to get lured into a bubble that is combination support and misinformation pipeline.
Steve, yes there are a lot of well off Trump supporters...but as I travel the backroads between Baltimore and Philly or on the Eastern Shore towards the beaches or out in Appalachia, you find tattered Trump/Pence banners flying, Trump signs and Confederate flags at ramshackle, rundown places...trailers...homes with junk cars, folks who are NOT in the money. The VFWs and "social clubs" are full of Trump/Vance supporters...and they do not waver in their support...they are the ones at his rallies, yelling for him to insult people rather than talk policy. They are the ones who believe that Jesus saved him from the assassin's bullet.
If You Read Roman History.... Rome devolved from a Republic of mainly Small Farmers, then thru Internal, and External Warfare, to Empire... Meanwhile the Internal Fabric Collapsed... It was replaced by Mega Landowners who employed Slaves... What continued Roman Civilization was the creation of the Empire by Augustus... The Empire was powered by Slaves... The Emperor had most of the Wealth... Eventually that System Collapsed... The Masses were managed by 'Bread & Circuses'... Are the Rural MAGAs the new impoverished Plebeians?... DJT is a wannabe Emperor... The MAGAs love his Odorous Cruelty...
Closely paraphrased from: The Shahnameh (The Persian Book of Kings):
There were bad times. Rich men squabbled among themselves and would not pay taxes.
As punishment, a king wanted to raze a city. His vizier said: If you raze the city, then people will heap blame on you. Instead appoint a vulgar, ignorant, loudmouth as governor and he will destroy the city.
A beast appeared on the plains. It attacked the other beasts. It shone like gold, but within was all corruption.
These quotes stayed with me, as I reread it in 2016. Anyone who wants insight into Iran, it's sense of itself, and it's long game, ought read The Shahnameh. It is the founding Persian epic and very beloved. Also it is wonderful to read. Standing before a display case at the Met in NYC, I saw an older man with tears rolling down his face. We chatted. He was very touched to see the illuminated manuscript pages, and that Americans would honor and include it.
I've read both translated editions by British poet Dick Davis. The best.
From the collections of The Library of Congress, examples of Persian calligraphy and painting.
Thank You for sharing... Persia is indeed a very Ancient, Proud Civilization... Many Contemporary Iranians consider themselves Persian that speak Persian... The U.S. should not be manipulated into attacking Iran... Look at how they fought the Iraqis for almost 10-Years...
Apache, I think you may be right about MAGA "plebeians" . During the 2016 election, I drove from Deep Creek Lake to DC on back roads through Western Maryland, WV, through Harpers Ferry and into VA. Trump totally dominated the yard signs in the western more rural areas...some of them VERY poor. As I came east Hillary signs started to show up, until I got past Harpers Ferry and then she began to dominate the scene as I got closer to DC. These days, I don't see nearly as many Trump signs anywhere...but there are some enthusiastic pockets. I told conservative friends 8 years ago that he wanted to be a dictator...they told me I was wrong...some are finally walking away from him. Others won't let go of the Fox propaganda talking points...no matter how much evidence we present.
I had the experience in 2004 of going to DC and seeing so many Kerry signs. I thought that maybe rural Texas was the outlier. Fox and dirty tricks won the day then, they are still busy as beavers.
I think Trump still has dirty tricks up his sleeve, especially when it comes to using Georgia’s election system to try rigging the election to favor himself. Trump also won’t hesitate to threaten or actually use violence whether or not he wins. The insurrection made that quite clear.
They still use the "swift boat" tactics. It's pretty obvious they will use everything in their Lee Atwater/Roger Ailes play books...bless Regan's little heart for getting rid of the fairness doctrine.
I am a sure lot fewer families & friends would not have been separated, as a result of the brainwashing from those kinds of media outlets, and even our Congress wouldnt have been locked into legislative inaction & chaos for so many years.
I remember when we had publishing institutions with integrity, before Rupert. I thought they would always be like that. Of course, I missed the Hearst years
Pretty much...but my question is "how did they get that way ?" What attracted so many to him in 2016 ? He basically insulted his way to the White House. He played divide and conquer with his primary opponents and it worked. He would single out one and give them a "pet name". Then insult them about something. Then when he won the primary he turned to insulting a man with disabilities, the media..."enemies of the state"....if I had been them, I would have turned off my camera and left. Why give him free air time if I'm his enemy ? The media...left, right and middle helped to create this creature. He really is a vampire of sorts...he keeps sucking blood to stay alive...let's hope that the light of day and a worthy opponent end this trail of misery.
Well, there is one good thing I can say about one of the trumpers who live in my area (CT). He recycles (or is an hoarder) and has a Trump 2020 sign up.
Ignorance and money are not mutually exclusive, nor are ignorance and hate. But it seems that ignorance is motivated to vote. The MAGAts I know are not needy, but since he is supported by plenty with money, they do not feel so aligned with the ones you describe. They are a different kind of ignorant, they buy his “Apprentice” persona and the related bullschittery. They are likely the ones spending money on his NFT’s and believing that Fox is News.
JD I'd like to see research, if it exists on how many solid MAGA followers first learned of Trump or became "enamored" of him via the Apprentice and/or his Art of the Deal ghost written book ? I'd bet that the number is high.
Yep, too many people watch crap tv, and the “conservative” cretins have new books out like an assembly line. Pushing the narrative like manna from heaven. I know people who buy them in multiples and give for gifts to the “unsuspecting” as well as the true believers.
Karen, I can relate...he said he needed a writing gig and took it because he needed the money. He also said the experience was unlike any other. He would normally sit down and interview the person and get the material he needed to write the book...so that basically the ghost writer is organizing their thoughts. But in this case Trump could not sit for lengthy interviews. After 15 minutes he had enough...so the writer followed him around and took copious notes for awhile. I've considered myself a "hired gun" with a camera for a long time. I took gigs from opposite sides of the same issue...once renting 2 opposing sides the same VCR in the same day...it was a bizarre experience...and if they had known...but I believed in freedom of speech. Now I'm at a point where I have one production company client that does an annual event in DC with a Conservative "think tank". They do a gala event and give awards to the "best" conservatives. They are not Trumpers. He has never gotten their award...but neither has Liz Cheney. Their next event is next spring. I love my crew...and we make very good money. We are all very liberal and enjoy working together and getting to hear what these folks talk about. But will I do it again ? I don't know.
The author made some comment that he got most of his information by interviewing everyone else. i think it would be hilarious if trump (by himself) wrote a children's book like Obama did or Jill Biden did about her cat.
Damn, I need to do that, a great picker-upper. Hope Devin Nunes gets to see it every day too. Of course, he took his money off the top, like all shysters do.
Mike, I have also seen Trump/pence flags in rural areas..I guess they are living in the past….I have a neighbor who has done work in my house when we remodeled it who would always had fox radio on. I have come to see that it’s not about policy with these folks….Trump is spewing anger and hate and for some reason this really resonates with many who are not in the upper elite class. The lower classes (I hate that terminology,) and undereducated are angry.(perhaps we ought to ask them what they are angry about) Anger and Hate are strong emotions….They identify with that. IDK.
I think it lies in brain design (I don't know what the more accurate term is) where people who self-identify as "conservative" utilize their midbrain for complex decision making (the part of the brain used to identify threat and determine threat response) vs. the people who identify as liberal use the frontal cortex (the part of the brain that knows how to reason).
That is the best description that I have heard to date.
I first met "Fox News" when the terrorists attacked us on 9/11. My brother returned from the barber with a placemat purchased at Ben Franklin that had a map of the world on it. He wanted to find Afghanistan. He turned on Fox and watched it non stop for days with his placemat map in front of him. In a few days he felt he was better informed than any neighbor and at least as able as his construction worker coworkers to discuss foreign affairs. Fox has that sort of pull to the less well educated ( those not given to actual research) among us. I think there are many more people like my brother all around me than there are people who think differently or look for more in a news organization. Not bad people - simple people who have strong ideas about right and wrong, good and evil. Many of these people became MAGA Republicans because of the propaganda they were addicted to - became angry because they were told they should be angry, suspicious because they were encouraged to be suspicious. Eventually they became angry at and suspicious of me and my sister - people they knew who thought differently.
Ally: If it isn't anger, then, we'd call it fear? I can see that. Interesting how closely tied are those two responses. When I am afraid, it is an easy slip into anger at the thing that is threatening.
They are not in it for the tax breaks. The folks you describe are following him because of their fear of “the others”, which trump amplifies and makes permissible.
No realization that they will be far, far, far worse off in every way but one: "owning the libs". Never mind you're reusing coffee grounds, you can "own the libs" and be a "winner".
Drive the back roads of central Florida or eastern NC, and you will see those same tattered Trump and Confederate flags.
As for Jesus saving Trump, that kid was a bad shot, God would not do something like kill an innocent bystander to save Trump. I think the kid was such a bad shot that he missed Trump and that blood on Trump was splatter from the actual victim.
Jenn, just wondering, does anyone recall seeing any sign of bruising after the bandaid was removed? I just had a cyst on my earlobe excised by my dermatologist and it is the deepest purple pink I’ve ever seen. I doubt very much the bruising will be completely gone in 10 days.
Trump and the current Republican Party, hand-picked members of SCOTUS included, seem to have a unifying urge to ignore and breach the laws and customs of their society, while attempting to intrusively dictate the behavior of others. From that frame of mind, the callousness of Trump and his entourage in the National Cemetery is what one would expect from them. It's all about supremacy.
Mike, I’d love for the relatives who had their loved ones gravesites exposed on TikbTok by the Trump campaign to sue the campaign to have the videos removed and to get a public apology from the campaign.
Despicable. And I also feel for the cemetery official who cannot take action because of the possibility of retribution. What kind of society are we living in?!
I see the other ones - the folks that live in busted down houses or trailers. They are led by ignorance, and they blame the very government they from which receive some sort of assistance, for their poverty. They were told that the “left wing” government took away their opportunities and gave them to immigrants and people of color.
The thing all MAGAts have in common is the sense that some undeserving people have or will take away what is theirs. Every Trump commercial bears that out ‘…there’s more for them and less for you.’ This strikes fear at the core of people who either love money or who have already lost most everything.
Brings to mind a conversation I had yesterday with a neighbor who is herself a WW2 war bride from France. In the aftermath of local storms, she was suggesting my husband come remove the bodies of 2 deer electrocuted by downed power lines. She bemoaned the fact that there were no hard working young people around to staff local services for cleanup and I mentioned lots of people want to come to this country to work. (to her credit she has been incredibly hard working since coming to this country in the 50's)She is an ardent MAGA and refuses to imagine our country strengthened by the efforts of immigrants rather than threatened by others. So frustrating.
The most bigoted woman in our neighborhood which is VERY diverse is from Europe in her 80's with a strong accent...and she's the one always complaining about brown & black people or any kind of minority. I just avoid her.
Most of us are hard workers. She made a choice to move here and should be thanking the U.S. People make choices every day to be happy and thankful. If she wasn't so grumpy she would know many great young people! She should call the authorities and deal with those people!
Steve, please add some 'deep history' for us. Which Roman Emperor does Trump most remind you of and which slice of Roman history does our current election season most remind you of. First 'gut feel' that comes to mind regardless of not fitting neatly. Thanks
Gaius Caesar Augustus Germanicus (31 August 12 – 24 January 41)
Described as “self-indulgent, cruel, sadistic, extravagant and sexually perverted thereafter; an insane, murderous tyrant who demanded and received worship as a living god, humiliated his Senate, and planned to make his horse a consul.”
Nero... His 'Golden Palace' reminds me of 'Mar-a-Lago;.... From Wikipedia:
"Most Roman sources offer overwhelmingly negative assessments of his personality and reign. Most contemporary sources describe him as tyrannical, self-indulgent, and debauched. The historian Tacitus claims the Roman people thought him compulsive and corrupt. "
None of the above - presidents have destructive power at their finger tips that would have been unimaginable in the pre-modern period, and have used it. Caligula's terror, for example, was really barley even a terror of those beyond the Senate; same with Nero. But because senators were also the main historians of the epoch they tend to be hostile to any emperor who doesn't respect their privileges. So I don't see a parallel between Trump and eccentric emperors. It's worse. Where the real parallel with Roman history is for the US is the epoch in which the republic became a dictatorship. People often refer to the period of the dictatorship as the empire, but Rome was already an empire in the republican period (roughly 509-30 BCE).
What occurs in the period from the 130s going forward is that norms begin to be broken and wealth and power begin to concentrate in the hands of a few. The Roman constitution, which was one of normative custom and tradition, not written, also saw gradual, then rapid erosion, particularly in the period between roughly 88-44 BCE.
After the dictatorship of Caesar there was a feeble attempt at restoration of republican government, but that died on the beaches of Formiae with the death of Cicero in December of 43.
We might well remember, folks, that Rome was always an aggressor, clever by half with its citizenship offers, the road of conquest was littered with flat out atrocities. Eg Corinth, Carthage, Palestine. Not that this kind of thing was all that unusual. Heavy handed tactics abound in the history books.
lol, remember, Constantine and company ended the most severe persecutions against Christian Romans under Diocletian and company in the closing/opening years of the 3rd/4th centuries. He also presided over and insisted on legislated solutions to the doctrinal disputes among the various factions of Christian leaders in his day. To wit, the Nicene Council, the Apostles Creed kind of thing. He initially only removed the persecution (after all, this growing but substantial minority were all fellow citizens and slaves) but quickly provided funding for messaging (50 copies of the Bible) , restoration of confiscated properties, then augmenting facilities. In the century that followed, esp with recognition of Christianity as a legal religion, numbers swelled, and pro Christian support continued apace (as well as discrimination against Jews, thanks to those fine Christians) until, after countered a few imperial attempts to revive/suppress paganism/Christianity , Theodosius outlawed paganism, though pagan practices continued in decline for some centuries anyay. During this century, and after, there was indeed destruction or repurposing of pagan temples et al. Remember, Jen, the Roman empire was "Christianized" by the Romans themselves, with most of that after Constantine was gone. I do agree, there was indeed much muscling and take up in the process. In a world where dictatorship was sine qua non, Christianity was remarkably "democratic". Relatively few people were outright taken out "by the sword" and in fact it wasnt even a prime instrument of change. My reading of history. Try Diarmaid McCollough's History of Christianity, though a bit heavy on detail and length.
This is a really interesting discussion. At what point does an expanding polity transform from a state to an empire? In the case of Rome, was it the acquisition of Egypt? Did the sheer size and complexity of this conquest require the creation of an administration capable of managing it? It might be argued that the Ottoman Empire was similarly transformed 1500 years later by the same acquisition.
I don’t think an apt parallel can be found in that period. Like him or not, Julius Caesar was a soldiers soldier, a leader of men, an ambitious over achiever. - yes, but they say Trump was ambitious - who I would hazard to say, loved Rome more than himself and wished to earn greatness by making it greater, through both expansion, and greater unity…under him. He was one hard act to follow. Donald Trump …?? Seriously ? Ditto, Augustus who I understand took on the title of “Imperator”, then deified and raised a statue to himself on Corfu or someplace in the western Isles of Greece after winning a naval battle over his rivals.
By that time as you point out, “Rome” was already the epicenter of a juggernaut of territorial and social domination by means of force, in other words, “imperialism”. There was then some nexus between leadership capabilities and this. But as the decades go by, with a few notable exceptions, there there is a steady in this causal connection, to the point where emperors become merely fleas on the back of a galloping horse. That is the period in which I would look for a parallel.
It’s called misogynoir, a toxic blend of racism and sexism specifically directed against Black women. Trump doesn’t think Kamala Harris could make it in politics on her own talent, but she has. Trump being Trump, he won’t ever believe it, and he fears strong, outspoken Black women.
In all seriousness, his malignant type sees woman as sex toys first, lil' helpers second, full people never. Their tiny brains literally can't process a female having a larger brain. They seem to truly reject that such a thing is even remotely possible.
How satisfying helping power-wash away not just this embarrassment to the Y chromosome but his whole rancid non-philosophy is proving to be.
We must pour out the pot and wash the remains down the sewer. Time to take our country back. Go out by the millions and vote! Clean these evil doers out of the people’s house and run off Donald Trump. It is shameful and embarrassing that such low class and lack of moral character ever held the office of president. Oh yeah, then we must clean up the Supreme Court and do away with the electoral college. Take our Country on to the future we deserve and need. We can do it.
50/50 is the best we can do this time, realistically. However, that will be enough if everyone sticks together and votes to send the filibuster to the dustbin. The stakes are so high that I suspect we shall see the dam burst.
I'm hoping the momentum we're seeing so far has room to grow now that the campaign is heating up. None of the polls published reflect the ending of the DNC and the subsequent weeks of active campaigning. Kamala and Tim are not about making anyone think their messaging is "complicated".
The other factor with people voting for Trump is what Dr. Richardson has identified-the vilification of the word “socialism” that the Movement Conservatives hung around the necks of anyone (ie, Democrats) that did not support their desire the keep wealth for the very wealthy.
Where I ran into that personally is a recent conversation with my cousin, who is in her later 70’s. She has spent her life learning that Democrats are socialists, and she can only vote Republican.
She personally despises Trump. She wishes he was in jail. But she read Harris’ father was a Marxist (I looked it up, he did support Marxism), so that is all she needs to veer away from Harris, “hold her nose and vote for Trump again”.
In a previous conversation, she said she fears socialism.
There are many like her, I am afraid. Intelligent people of her age(and she is smart) who have been so indoctrinated with fear of socialism all their lives, have been indoctrinated that Democrats are socialists, that the fact that Harris’ father supported Marxism (even though Harris herself has never supported Marxism that I have seen, and wasn’t even raised by her father)is all she needs to vote for someone she despises and she knows is a convicted felon. She feels this is the ultimate issue of this election.
The Movement Conservatives really were successful with their messaging to a lot of Boomers.
Maybe ask her what "socialism" means to her? That's become my go-to response when someone dismisses an argument with a term like that. It's always interesting to hear what someone else's thinking is based on.
I remember in my 8th grade US History class the teacher had us read, among other original sources, Marx's Tenets, and asked us to compare and contrast with what we knew of the US. As I recall, 8 of the 10 tenets were intrinsic to US government.
As a resident of Appalachia, I can assure you that there are millions of MAGA supporters who are not only not well off, but are so economically challenged that they are on government support. Don’t try to convince them that their means of support will disappear once Trump is back. They think he actually cares about them.
I find this not just sad — but frighteningly and frightfully SAD!!! I guess it’s due to a combination of ignorance, bigotry, jealousy, hate, laziness and just plain fear?
Heavens. Rural America is chock full of poor and struggling MAGAs. Undereducated and brainwashed by decades of hate radio and Fox. I live in rural Virginia. The enthusiasm is less than in 2020 for sure but I still won’t put a Harris Walz sign in my yard.
I’m in rural Virginia also, but while there is much poverty the monster Trump/Whittman/Cao signs are on property owned by community leaders, who should know better. Their resentment is deep seated and generational.
Trump often accuses others of deeds he himself commits. I’ve seen Trump’s “letters of adoration” to Putin and can’t help but suspect that Trump offered sexual as well as other favors to Putin to in order to receive so much help for his political career.
"he himself commits"... that is indeed a basic Maga messaging technique. Any freedom and democracy the Dems have come up with has been instantly by "us too" and throw the book at them, of course, they have brought out their "communism/socialism" fear mongering, which they have for generations now, kinda goes back to the Red Scare of 1920, well as Heather has aptly reminded us the industrialists and southerners of the late 19th century. God, such a long, worn down story! Never occurs that any financial hand up flows straight back into the economy, creating demand for businesses, payrolls, profits, tax revenues, all to the net benefit of all concerned. I so repeat myself on this one.
What Greek and Roman wisdom thankfully got right is that *all politics* depends on people of *virtue*, of which Trump can claim no part. Intemperate. Imprudent. Cowardly, no courage. Injust to the nth degree. Without love, hope, charity or faith of any sort, while claiming to be the Second Coming (of Jesus, Lincoln, whoever). Virtue is an ideal, offering these measure of one striving for good. That Trump registers a zero on each measure is a telltale sign for his supporters to abandon him for their own sake.
Steve! It’s as though we are back in middle school with “everyone” wanting to be in the clique with “the mean girls”. Now, as then, the acts and support required starts out small and includes small acts of cruelty towards outsiders. Those who walk the hallways, preening, know that any show of disloyalty to the leader will result in expulsion as well as immediate attack. There is also the mandatory jostling to be seen among the pack members as closest to the leader.
It’s a shame that the “Gang That Couldn’t Legislate” (nod to The Gang That Couldn’t Shoot Straight) enables the whitewashing of their leader while he listens to the “evil boyfriend” (Stephen Miller) who delights in pulling wings off flys (ripping nursing babies from their mothers’ arms).
The ones I know are just never wealthy enough. My ex husband is a diagnosed sociopathic narcissist. I don't know if it's possible but I think he may also have turned my daughter into one.
Yes, the Arlington episode is a disgrace. But just as horrific are the innuendos he's now spewing about the relationship between Harris and Brown and that she owes her career to sexual favors. It is incredibly demeaning and misogynistic - but we all now know that is the point.
I was trained as a Roman historian to be wary of ancient sources, that ancient historians never bothered to look at the deeper questions in their analysis of history of economics or demographics or, that it all had to do with fear, honor, or self interest, as Thucydides famously stated, or the justice of the gods, as per Herodotus, or, as with the Romans - Livy, Sallust, Tacitus - all about morality.
The Roman tendency to moralize has cast a long shadow and made historians gun-shy about looking to moral causality for explanations. But I am just going to say it straight: I know of no MAGA supporter personally who is not well off. But I know many that are addled and cruel. That they support a spectacularly patent monster - Trump is definitionally what moral (and, we can add, intellectual) collapse looks like.
The frog in the pot being slowly stewed is nearly done - if Trump wins in November it will be fully cooked.
Many of them are not well-off. They are motivated by fear, anger and hate to support those who are, in reality, their worst enemies.
Fear, resentment, ignorance, and faith based irrational habits of mind.
Unswerving allegiance to the GOP.
And strategic self interest. Tax incentives and deregulation for the wealthy. Culture war wins for the racist right wing religious extremists. Oh, and the Supreme Court and federal judiciary - for starts.
I can't remember what NPR called the extremist Christian movement that embraces miracles. But those irrational folks are sadly vulnerable to just about any crazy thing. Welcome anyone who does know as it's driving me nuts. It's not "fabulists" but something like it,
Not sure if this provides the answer or term that you’re searching for — but wow, no WOW — this relates with and to a big part of what we’re having to deal with: Christian nationalism thrives — and is a force for returning Trump to power
https://www.npr.org/2022/01/14/1073215412/christian-nationalism-donald-trump
Thanks JL for the NPR link. Christian has nothing to do with it. The soul-less Trump bunch should be called Antichrist Nationalists.
They make me glad I am not a Christian, even though I do practice some of the concepts. I like the Girl Scout motto/slogan: Do a good turn daily.
This was the first thing I found. According to "real" Christians, these people are not "Christians". If you've read any of my comments, you'll know my feelings on that...
https://www.npr.org/2024/02/29/1234843874/tracing-the-rise-of-christian-nationalism-from-trump-to-the-ala-supreme-court
All those people wearing RNC designed "bandages" on their ears at the Republican convention was one of the weirdest things ever. Still, maybe there's a historical precedence for such cultish behavior when voting for a presidential candidate?
Thank you for calling them 'bandages' rather than 'Maxi-Pads.' The latter seemed far too close to 'Tampon Tim' - suggesting that feminine hygiene products are inherently shameful and embarrassing.
I think we all engage in cultish behavior to some degree, at least in episodes, projecting onto some person things that we wish were true, yet are not supported by the evidence. Serious cult involve a commitment to a prohibition against questioning or criticizing the cult. Thoughtcrime.
Are you thinking of the Seven Mountain Mandate?
That proclivity seems to have kept tyrants in business for millennia.
Ordinary people have been set up to believe those who are really the enemies of our interests since at least the beginning of this country. It's part of a 'strong man' strategy which pits us against a faux enemy (slaves, the poor, women, LGBTQ folks, etc ) so we'll follow the 'strong man' who claims he'll protect us. (And I get this from Heather, so don't ask me for a cite because I'll never be able to find it! It was probably in one of her Chats, anyway!)
And racism, Jon. That is a huge part of their motivation.
I suspect racism is both cause and effect. I think we humans can be irrationally wary of people who seem "different" but also "othering" is a go-to ploy for tyrants. I read a book by a black historian who claimed that racism as we experience it in this country, was systematically promoted by slave owners, not just for self-justification, but to prevent the possibility of abused blacks from uniting in common cause with underprivileged whites against plutocracy. They're still at it.
I think you can be all those things and be morally bankrupt like Steve is pointing out.
Some may also be motivated by/ misdirected by FB friend groups. When lonely and isolated, it’s easy to get lured into a bubble that is combination support and misinformation pipeline.
Steve, yes there are a lot of well off Trump supporters...but as I travel the backroads between Baltimore and Philly or on the Eastern Shore towards the beaches or out in Appalachia, you find tattered Trump/Pence banners flying, Trump signs and Confederate flags at ramshackle, rundown places...trailers...homes with junk cars, folks who are NOT in the money. The VFWs and "social clubs" are full of Trump/Vance supporters...and they do not waver in their support...they are the ones at his rallies, yelling for him to insult people rather than talk policy. They are the ones who believe that Jesus saved him from the assassin's bullet.
If You Read Roman History.... Rome devolved from a Republic of mainly Small Farmers, then thru Internal, and External Warfare, to Empire... Meanwhile the Internal Fabric Collapsed... It was replaced by Mega Landowners who employed Slaves... What continued Roman Civilization was the creation of the Empire by Augustus... The Empire was powered by Slaves... The Emperor had most of the Wealth... Eventually that System Collapsed... The Masses were managed by 'Bread & Circuses'... Are the Rural MAGAs the new impoverished Plebeians?... DJT is a wannabe Emperor... The MAGAs love his Odorous Cruelty...
Closely paraphrased from: The Shahnameh (The Persian Book of Kings):
There were bad times. Rich men squabbled among themselves and would not pay taxes.
As punishment, a king wanted to raze a city. His vizier said: If you raze the city, then people will heap blame on you. Instead appoint a vulgar, ignorant, loudmouth as governor and he will destroy the city.
A beast appeared on the plains. It attacked the other beasts. It shone like gold, but within was all corruption.
These quotes stayed with me, as I reread it in 2016. Anyone who wants insight into Iran, it's sense of itself, and it's long game, ought read The Shahnameh. It is the founding Persian epic and very beloved. Also it is wonderful to read. Standing before a display case at the Met in NYC, I saw an older man with tears rolling down his face. We chatted. He was very touched to see the illuminated manuscript pages, and that Americans would honor and include it.
I've read both translated editions by British poet Dick Davis. The best.
From the collections of The Library of Congress, examples of Persian calligraphy and painting.
https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/thousand-years-of-the-persian-book/epic-of-shahnameh.html
https://www.si.edu/object/siris_sil_1089690
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahnameh
Thank You for sharing... Persia is indeed a very Ancient, Proud Civilization... Many Contemporary Iranians consider themselves Persian that speak Persian... The U.S. should not be manipulated into attacking Iran... Look at how they fought the Iraqis for almost 10-Years...
And remember who took that enemy away so that they can concentrate on us.
I have never heard of this. I will read it.
I am so grateful for those who bring me gems I never knew about. Thank you.
Thank you for this.
Apache, I think you may be right about MAGA "plebeians" . During the 2016 election, I drove from Deep Creek Lake to DC on back roads through Western Maryland, WV, through Harpers Ferry and into VA. Trump totally dominated the yard signs in the western more rural areas...some of them VERY poor. As I came east Hillary signs started to show up, until I got past Harpers Ferry and then she began to dominate the scene as I got closer to DC. These days, I don't see nearly as many Trump signs anywhere...but there are some enthusiastic pockets. I told conservative friends 8 years ago that he wanted to be a dictator...they told me I was wrong...some are finally walking away from him. Others won't let go of the Fox propaganda talking points...no matter how much evidence we present.
I had the experience in 2004 of going to DC and seeing so many Kerry signs. I thought that maybe rural Texas was the outlier. Fox and dirty tricks won the day then, they are still busy as beavers.
I think Trump still has dirty tricks up his sleeve, especially when it comes to using Georgia’s election system to try rigging the election to favor himself. Trump also won’t hesitate to threaten or actually use violence whether or not he wins. The insurrection made that quite clear.
And collateral damage is no problem for this crowd. In fact, may be useful. They aren’t the first but they may turn out to be the best.
They still use the "swift boat" tactics. It's pretty obvious they will use everything in their Lee Atwater/Roger Ailes play books...bless Regan's little heart for getting rid of the fairness doctrine.
Every last dirty trick they know, and some new ones they are inventing right now. As for Ronnie, he was just the right dummie in the right place.
What could our national life be like without Fox, NewsMax, and One America News Network?
I am a sure lot fewer families & friends would not have been separated, as a result of the brainwashing from those kinds of media outlets, and even our Congress wouldnt have been locked into legislative inaction & chaos for so many years.
I remember when we had publishing institutions with integrity, before Rupert. I thought they would always be like that. Of course, I missed the Hearst years
Just last weekend we drove out that way and took notice. Fingers crossed.
I am absolutely convinced that people are addicted to faux news and have been brainwashed.
It is a cult. Pure and simple.
Pretty much...but my question is "how did they get that way ?" What attracted so many to him in 2016 ? He basically insulted his way to the White House. He played divide and conquer with his primary opponents and it worked. He would single out one and give them a "pet name". Then insult them about something. Then when he won the primary he turned to insulting a man with disabilities, the media..."enemies of the state"....if I had been them, I would have turned off my camera and left. Why give him free air time if I'm his enemy ? The media...left, right and middle helped to create this creature. He really is a vampire of sorts...he keeps sucking blood to stay alive...let's hope that the light of day and a worthy opponent end this trail of misery.
Deliberate ploy
the eternal problem of "trusted sources"
Well, there is one good thing I can say about one of the trumpers who live in my area (CT). He recycles (or is an hoarder) and has a Trump 2020 sign up.
And as a tool of conquest they spread Christianity. Constantine's Sword.
If Caligula and Nero had a baby…
Ignorance and money are not mutually exclusive, nor are ignorance and hate. But it seems that ignorance is motivated to vote. The MAGAts I know are not needy, but since he is supported by plenty with money, they do not feel so aligned with the ones you describe. They are a different kind of ignorant, they buy his “Apprentice” persona and the related bullschittery. They are likely the ones spending money on his NFT’s and believing that Fox is News.
JD I'd like to see research, if it exists on how many solid MAGA followers first learned of Trump or became "enamored" of him via the Apprentice and/or his Art of the Deal ghost written book ? I'd bet that the number is high.
Yep, too many people watch crap tv, and the “conservative” cretins have new books out like an assembly line. Pushing the narrative like manna from heaven. I know people who buy them in multiples and give for gifts to the “unsuspecting” as well as the true believers.
The author of The Art of the Deal said trump was awful, and that the only reason he did it was trump offered him a lot of money. Never again he said.
Karen, I can relate...he said he needed a writing gig and took it because he needed the money. He also said the experience was unlike any other. He would normally sit down and interview the person and get the material he needed to write the book...so that basically the ghost writer is organizing their thoughts. But in this case Trump could not sit for lengthy interviews. After 15 minutes he had enough...so the writer followed him around and took copious notes for awhile. I've considered myself a "hired gun" with a camera for a long time. I took gigs from opposite sides of the same issue...once renting 2 opposing sides the same VCR in the same day...it was a bizarre experience...and if they had known...but I believed in freedom of speech. Now I'm at a point where I have one production company client that does an annual event in DC with a Conservative "think tank". They do a gala event and give awards to the "best" conservatives. They are not Trumpers. He has never gotten their award...but neither has Liz Cheney. Their next event is next spring. I love my crew...and we make very good money. We are all very liberal and enjoy working together and getting to hear what these folks talk about. But will I do it again ? I don't know.
The author made some comment that he got most of his information by interviewing everyone else. i think it would be hilarious if trump (by himself) wrote a children's book like Obama did or Jill Biden did about her cat.
I bet they also are buying DJT long and will get badly burned when he loses. The stock is slowly tanking.
May I live long enough to see chump go broke.
May we all live long enough to see chump go to prison!
I’d hang around for that
I think a lot of the stock was bought by people who didn't care if it was lost. They did it to show support for trump.
I have to admit I’m somewhat addicted to watching his stock go lower… and lower.
Exciting tv, I’ll have to check it out. As long as I don’t have to look at his putrid mug
It’s a saved ticker on my phone. Love seeing his
stock in red amidst a sea of green!
Damn, I need to do that, a great picker-upper. Hope Devin Nunes gets to see it every day too. Of course, he took his money off the top, like all shysters do.
Here’s a source or symptom of a BIG part of what we have to concern ourselves with:
Christian nationalism thrives — and is a force for returning Trump to power
https://www.npr.org/2022/01/14/
and
Christian nationalism on the rise as it enjoys more Republican support
https://www.npr.org/2023/02/14/1156642544/more-than-half-of-republicans-support-christian-nationalism-according-to-a-new-s
It’s just the inquisition in black robes, and sycophants to carry out the orders
Mike, I have also seen Trump/pence flags in rural areas..I guess they are living in the past….I have a neighbor who has done work in my house when we remodeled it who would always had fox radio on. I have come to see that it’s not about policy with these folks….Trump is spewing anger and hate and for some reason this really resonates with many who are not in the upper elite class. The lower classes (I hate that terminology,) and undereducated are angry.(perhaps we ought to ask them what they are angry about) Anger and Hate are strong emotions….They identify with that. IDK.
I think it lies in brain design (I don't know what the more accurate term is) where people who self-identify as "conservative" utilize their midbrain for complex decision making (the part of the brain used to identify threat and determine threat response) vs. the people who identify as liberal use the frontal cortex (the part of the brain that knows how to reason).
That is the best description that I have heard to date.
I first met "Fox News" when the terrorists attacked us on 9/11. My brother returned from the barber with a placemat purchased at Ben Franklin that had a map of the world on it. He wanted to find Afghanistan. He turned on Fox and watched it non stop for days with his placemat map in front of him. In a few days he felt he was better informed than any neighbor and at least as able as his construction worker coworkers to discuss foreign affairs. Fox has that sort of pull to the less well educated ( those not given to actual research) among us. I think there are many more people like my brother all around me than there are people who think differently or look for more in a news organization. Not bad people - simple people who have strong ideas about right and wrong, good and evil. Many of these people became MAGA Republicans because of the propaganda they were addicted to - became angry because they were told they should be angry, suspicious because they were encouraged to be suspicious. Eventually they became angry at and suspicious of me and my sister - people they knew who thought differently.
I know educated people who do the same and think that they are the cream of the crop
No, it's not about policy. It's about racism.
I mentioned earlier that I saw I vote for felon signs. That says something about trumpers
When I have asked about the anger, the answer has been: "I'm not angry." Nowhere to go from there, I figure.
Melinda, look at my response to Nancy. They probably are not angry; their brain is identifying things that we find as reasonable as a threat.
Ally: If it isn't anger, then, we'd call it fear? I can see that. Interesting how closely tied are those two responses. When I am afraid, it is an easy slip into anger at the thing that is threatening.
They are not in it for the tax breaks. The folks you describe are following him because of their fear of “the others”, which trump amplifies and makes permissible.
So sad
No realization that they will be far, far, far worse off in every way but one: "owning the libs". Never mind you're reusing coffee grounds, you can "own the libs" and be a "winner".
Drive the back roads of central Florida or eastern NC, and you will see those same tattered Trump and Confederate flags.
As for Jesus saving Trump, that kid was a bad shot, God would not do something like kill an innocent bystander to save Trump. I think the kid was such a bad shot that he missed Trump and that blood on Trump was splatter from the actual victim.
Jenn, just wondering, does anyone recall seeing any sign of bruising after the bandaid was removed? I just had a cyst on my earlobe excised by my dermatologist and it is the deepest purple pink I’ve ever seen. I doubt very much the bruising will be completely gone in 10 days.
Trump and the current Republican Party, hand-picked members of SCOTUS included, seem to have a unifying urge to ignore and breach the laws and customs of their society, while attempting to intrusively dictate the behavior of others. From that frame of mind, the callousness of Trump and his entourage in the National Cemetery is what one would expect from them. It's all about supremacy.
For Arlington, the Army and the Pentagon to all speak out about this issue shows just how egregious they believe it is.
Mike, I’d love for the relatives who had their loved ones gravesites exposed on TikbTok by the Trump campaign to sue the campaign to have the videos removed and to get a public apology from the campaign.
There has been blowback from the family whose soldier is buried next to the one of the "thumbs up" photo.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/28/us/politics/trump-arlington-cemetery.html?unlocked_article_code=1.G04.8gTF.uS-E-NgdlT0I&smid=url-share
Should be a gifted link.
Despicable. And I also feel for the cemetery official who cannot take action because of the possibility of retribution. What kind of society are we living in?!
And what to expect if he “wins.”
Its not SCOTIS that is the problem. Rather it is the Republicans on the court , who should be called SCROTUS
I see the other ones - the folks that live in busted down houses or trailers. They are led by ignorance, and they blame the very government they from which receive some sort of assistance, for their poverty. They were told that the “left wing” government took away their opportunities and gave them to immigrants and people of color.
The thing all MAGAts have in common is the sense that some undeserving people have or will take away what is theirs. Every Trump commercial bears that out ‘…there’s more for them and less for you.’ This strikes fear at the core of people who either love money or who have already lost most everything.
Brings to mind a conversation I had yesterday with a neighbor who is herself a WW2 war bride from France. In the aftermath of local storms, she was suggesting my husband come remove the bodies of 2 deer electrocuted by downed power lines. She bemoaned the fact that there were no hard working young people around to staff local services for cleanup and I mentioned lots of people want to come to this country to work. (to her credit she has been incredibly hard working since coming to this country in the 50's)She is an ardent MAGA and refuses to imagine our country strengthened by the efforts of immigrants rather than threatened by others. So frustrating.
The most bigoted woman in our neighborhood which is VERY diverse is from Europe in her 80's with a strong accent...and she's the one always complaining about brown & black people or any kind of minority. I just avoid her.
Most of us are hard workers. She made a choice to move here and should be thanking the U.S. People make choices every day to be happy and thankful. If she wasn't so grumpy she would know many great young people! She should call the authorities and deal with those people!
That’s the ones I know. Fear, loathing and envy
Steve, please add some 'deep history' for us. Which Roman Emperor does Trump most remind you of and which slice of Roman history does our current election season most remind you of. First 'gut feel' that comes to mind regardless of not fitting neatly. Thanks
Caligula?
Gaius Caesar Augustus Germanicus (31 August 12 – 24 January 41)
Described as “self-indulgent, cruel, sadistic, extravagant and sexually perverted thereafter; an insane, murderous tyrant who demanded and received worship as a living god, humiliated his Senate, and planned to make his horse a consul.”
Nero... His 'Golden Palace' reminds me of 'Mar-a-Lago;.... From Wikipedia:
"Most Roman sources offer overwhelmingly negative assessments of his personality and reign. Most contemporary sources describe him as tyrannical, self-indulgent, and debauched. The historian Tacitus claims the Roman people thought him compulsive and corrupt. "
The Evil Siths Are Eternal...
Nero & Caligula are quite a pair...Donald seems to have plenty of their traits...
Quite an overlap, although a well trained horse is surely more competent than Jared,
Mine is. And pleasant to look at as well, compared to that vulpine monster.
I don't think I've ever used the word "vulpine" before and have no idea where it came from.
Mine are too, Jen! Trump’s lack of feeling towards animals mirrors his lack of feeling towards people.
😂👏
None of the above - presidents have destructive power at their finger tips that would have been unimaginable in the pre-modern period, and have used it. Caligula's terror, for example, was really barley even a terror of those beyond the Senate; same with Nero. But because senators were also the main historians of the epoch they tend to be hostile to any emperor who doesn't respect their privileges. So I don't see a parallel between Trump and eccentric emperors. It's worse. Where the real parallel with Roman history is for the US is the epoch in which the republic became a dictatorship. People often refer to the period of the dictatorship as the empire, but Rome was already an empire in the republican period (roughly 509-30 BCE).
What occurs in the period from the 130s going forward is that norms begin to be broken and wealth and power begin to concentrate in the hands of a few. The Roman constitution, which was one of normative custom and tradition, not written, also saw gradual, then rapid erosion, particularly in the period between roughly 88-44 BCE.
After the dictatorship of Caesar there was a feeble attempt at restoration of republican government, but that died on the beaches of Formiae with the death of Cicero in December of 43.
We might well remember, folks, that Rome was always an aggressor, clever by half with its citizenship offers, the road of conquest was littered with flat out atrocities. Eg Corinth, Carthage, Palestine. Not that this kind of thing was all that unusual. Heavy handed tactics abound in the history books.
Don't forget Constantine's sword, Christianity. Clever.
lol, remember, Constantine and company ended the most severe persecutions against Christian Romans under Diocletian and company in the closing/opening years of the 3rd/4th centuries. He also presided over and insisted on legislated solutions to the doctrinal disputes among the various factions of Christian leaders in his day. To wit, the Nicene Council, the Apostles Creed kind of thing. He initially only removed the persecution (after all, this growing but substantial minority were all fellow citizens and slaves) but quickly provided funding for messaging (50 copies of the Bible) , restoration of confiscated properties, then augmenting facilities. In the century that followed, esp with recognition of Christianity as a legal religion, numbers swelled, and pro Christian support continued apace (as well as discrimination against Jews, thanks to those fine Christians) until, after countered a few imperial attempts to revive/suppress paganism/Christianity , Theodosius outlawed paganism, though pagan practices continued in decline for some centuries anyay. During this century, and after, there was indeed destruction or repurposing of pagan temples et al. Remember, Jen, the Roman empire was "Christianized" by the Romans themselves, with most of that after Constantine was gone. I do agree, there was indeed much muscling and take up in the process. In a world where dictatorship was sine qua non, Christianity was remarkably "democratic". Relatively few people were outright taken out "by the sword" and in fact it wasnt even a prime instrument of change. My reading of history. Try Diarmaid McCollough's History of Christianity, though a bit heavy on detail and length.
This is a really interesting discussion. At what point does an expanding polity transform from a state to an empire? In the case of Rome, was it the acquisition of Egypt? Did the sheer size and complexity of this conquest require the creation of an administration capable of managing it? It might be argued that the Ottoman Empire was similarly transformed 1500 years later by the same acquisition.
I don’t think an apt parallel can be found in that period. Like him or not, Julius Caesar was a soldiers soldier, a leader of men, an ambitious over achiever. - yes, but they say Trump was ambitious - who I would hazard to say, loved Rome more than himself and wished to earn greatness by making it greater, through both expansion, and greater unity…under him. He was one hard act to follow. Donald Trump …?? Seriously ? Ditto, Augustus who I understand took on the title of “Imperator”, then deified and raised a statue to himself on Corfu or someplace in the western Isles of Greece after winning a naval battle over his rivals.
By that time as you point out, “Rome” was already the epicenter of a juggernaut of territorial and social domination by means of force, in other words, “imperialism”. There was then some nexus between leadership capabilities and this. But as the decades go by, with a few notable exceptions, there there is a steady in this causal connection, to the point where emperors become merely fleas on the back of a galloping horse. That is the period in which I would look for a parallel.
Steady decline …
It’s called misogynoir, a toxic blend of racism and sexism specifically directed against Black women. Trump doesn’t think Kamala Harris could make it in politics on her own talent, but she has. Trump being Trump, he won’t ever believe it, and he fears strong, outspoken Black women.
In all seriousness, his malignant type sees woman as sex toys first, lil' helpers second, full people never. Their tiny brains literally can't process a female having a larger brain. They seem to truly reject that such a thing is even remotely possible.
How satisfying helping power-wash away not just this embarrassment to the Y chromosome but his whole rancid non-philosophy is proving to be.
Will, He sees wives as powerless women who have loveless transactional relationships with their husbands. How sad.
And he thinks HE's made it? on his own talent? He fears what he can't dominate.
He's correct to fear her - she going to slaughter him!
We must pour out the pot and wash the remains down the sewer. Time to take our country back. Go out by the millions and vote! Clean these evil doers out of the people’s house and run off Donald Trump. It is shameful and embarrassing that such low class and lack of moral character ever held the office of president. Oh yeah, then we must clean up the Supreme Court and do away with the electoral college. Take our Country on to the future we deserve and need. We can do it.
We can only do that if we get a large enough majority in the Senate. Even if we control the Senate, we can’t do much without substantial control.
50/50 is the best we can do this time, realistically. However, that will be enough if everyone sticks together and votes to send the filibuster to the dustbin. The stakes are so high that I suspect we shall see the dam burst.
and remove the filibuster, of course!
You have a valid point. I know this campaign between Trump and Kamala will be close. But I believe Kamala will win.
I'm hoping the momentum we're seeing so far has room to grow now that the campaign is heating up. None of the polls published reflect the ending of the DNC and the subsequent weeks of active campaigning. Kamala and Tim are not about making anyone think their messaging is "complicated".
The other factor with people voting for Trump is what Dr. Richardson has identified-the vilification of the word “socialism” that the Movement Conservatives hung around the necks of anyone (ie, Democrats) that did not support their desire the keep wealth for the very wealthy.
Where I ran into that personally is a recent conversation with my cousin, who is in her later 70’s. She has spent her life learning that Democrats are socialists, and she can only vote Republican.
She personally despises Trump. She wishes he was in jail. But she read Harris’ father was a Marxist (I looked it up, he did support Marxism), so that is all she needs to veer away from Harris, “hold her nose and vote for Trump again”.
In a previous conversation, she said she fears socialism.
There are many like her, I am afraid. Intelligent people of her age(and she is smart) who have been so indoctrinated with fear of socialism all their lives, have been indoctrinated that Democrats are socialists, that the fact that Harris’ father supported Marxism (even though Harris herself has never supported Marxism that I have seen, and wasn’t even raised by her father)is all she needs to vote for someone she despises and she knows is a convicted felon. She feels this is the ultimate issue of this election.
The Movement Conservatives really were successful with their messaging to a lot of Boomers.
Exactly so.
Maybe ask her what "socialism" means to her? That's become my go-to response when someone dismisses an argument with a term like that. It's always interesting to hear what someone else's thinking is based on.
I remember in my 8th grade US History class the teacher had us read, among other original sources, Marx's Tenets, and asked us to compare and contrast with what we knew of the US. As I recall, 8 of the 10 tenets were intrinsic to US government.
Interesting take… ignore the real cause and blame the innocent. Yeah… that’s the MO.
As a resident of Appalachia, I can assure you that there are millions of MAGA supporters who are not only not well off, but are so economically challenged that they are on government support. Don’t try to convince them that their means of support will disappear once Trump is back. They think he actually cares about them.
Recall the Tea Party sign: "Get your government hands off my Medicare". You can't make this stuff up.
I find this not just sad — but frighteningly and frightfully SAD!!! I guess it’s due to a combination of ignorance, bigotry, jealousy, hate, laziness and just plain fear?
Heavens. Rural America is chock full of poor and struggling MAGAs. Undereducated and brainwashed by decades of hate radio and Fox. I live in rural Virginia. The enthusiasm is less than in 2020 for sure but I still won’t put a Harris Walz sign in my yard.
I’m in rural Virginia also, but while there is much poverty the monster Trump/Whittman/Cao signs are on property owned by community leaders, who should know better. Their resentment is deep seated and generational.
Trump often accuses others of deeds he himself commits. I’ve seen Trump’s “letters of adoration” to Putin and can’t help but suspect that Trump offered sexual as well as other favors to Putin to in order to receive so much help for his political career.
"he himself commits"... that is indeed a basic Maga messaging technique. Any freedom and democracy the Dems have come up with has been instantly by "us too" and throw the book at them, of course, they have brought out their "communism/socialism" fear mongering, which they have for generations now, kinda goes back to the Red Scare of 1920, well as Heather has aptly reminded us the industrialists and southerners of the late 19th century. God, such a long, worn down story! Never occurs that any financial hand up flows straight back into the economy, creating demand for businesses, payrolls, profits, tax revenues, all to the net benefit of all concerned. I so repeat myself on this one.
I figured out a long time ago that if I want to know what Rs have in mind, just listen to what they're accusing Ds of.
I imagine that he had so much more to offer. That strategy is straight from Goebbels.
What Greek and Roman wisdom thankfully got right is that *all politics* depends on people of *virtue*, of which Trump can claim no part. Intemperate. Imprudent. Cowardly, no courage. Injust to the nth degree. Without love, hope, charity or faith of any sort, while claiming to be the Second Coming (of Jesus, Lincoln, whoever). Virtue is an ideal, offering these measure of one striving for good. That Trump registers a zero on each measure is a telltale sign for his supporters to abandon him for their own sake.
Steve! It’s as though we are back in middle school with “everyone” wanting to be in the clique with “the mean girls”. Now, as then, the acts and support required starts out small and includes small acts of cruelty towards outsiders. Those who walk the hallways, preening, know that any show of disloyalty to the leader will result in expulsion as well as immediate attack. There is also the mandatory jostling to be seen among the pack members as closest to the leader.
It’s a shame that the “Gang That Couldn’t Legislate” (nod to The Gang That Couldn’t Shoot Straight) enables the whitewashing of their leader while he listens to the “evil boyfriend” (Stephen Miller) who delights in pulling wings off flys (ripping nursing babies from their mothers’ arms).
The ones I know are just never wealthy enough. My ex husband is a diagnosed sociopathic narcissist. I don't know if it's possible but I think he may also have turned my daughter into one.
It's sick.
I can't "like" this post. I am so sorry.
Jen, I hope that you are wrong about your daughter.