There is an annoying thought that keeps surfacing when I read the accounts of how many documents and the sensitivity of what 45 stole from us, The People. AND…..WHAT THE HELL he was doing for the 48 months or so, before leaving office??? Was he buying and selling sensitive intel as soon as he stepped into the Oval Office? I get sick to…
There is an annoying thought that keeps surfacing when I read the accounts of how many documents and the sensitivity of what 45 stole from us, The People. AND…..WHAT THE HELL he was doing for the 48 months or so, before leaving office??? Was he buying and selling sensitive intel as soon as he stepped into the Oval Office? I get sick to my stomach just trying to wrap my mind around the enormity of what this criminal has done to our country…..
those of us who knew Hillary was the better choice and those who knew DJT was a grifter before 2016 will always have that awful gnawing feeling of what could have been.
The images I had of TFG were
1) of a bull in a china shop (destroying all the beautiful, valuable things inside and leaving a lot of bull****
2) of a dumpster fire (stinky and polluting)
3) of a continuing train wreck (which also fits that all the damage he did to our national institutions continue to resonate - you cannot stop momentum. That's why President Joe Biden is STILL putting out fires from the last administration!
4) the absolute disaster of the Titanic's maiden voyage (let's talk about Climate Change while we are at it, and all the rats I am amazed are not more visibly jumping ship)
but the one that REALLY captures his entire existence is
5) chumming the waters. He spreads blood, destruction, violence and consumption.
Part of the disaster is that he’s modeled behavior now copied by the winner of the Florida primary. That man appears to be just as corrupt, but smarter.
malignant is a good word, infectious also comes to mind.
Does anybody REALIZE MORE THAN 1 in every 350 Americans have DIED of Covid?
It's because TFG dismantled the pandemic surveillance systems, then tried to downplay Covid even though at the same time he told Woodward he had been informed of the dire risks, then because Dr. Fauci was getting TV coverage he got jealous and took over the daily press briefings and started talking ..."crazy"
[I refer everyone back to Sarah Cooper's "how to medical" parody using TFG's OWN WORDS!!!]
He was grifting the entire time he occupied the WH and one does wonder how much selling of intel he did in four years. He is the worst thing that has ever happened since the Civil War and certainly the worst to occupy the WH. And yes, a traitor. We were over to our neighbors for a drink and chat this evening and we were wondering why people, especially women, think he is great. And yes, we had some answers. In the best circumstances it will take years to cut out this festering cancer.
Usually cults are seen as crazy by the majority. Rupert made this one mainstream. And he is still blathering propaganda to the masses of asses. Clones are carrying it to the depths of hell. And Leo’s money is buying more adherents by the nanosecond. Germany acknowledged their evil, with a nudge from Ike. Who will excise our cancer???
It's all so disturbing. His utter disrespect for the office, never to blame, always victimized, always right, and always out for himself is a very scary combination in a president. What a nightmare we are going through.
Good question! Take a look at Erich Fromm, who sought to understand how an advanced culturally sophisticated people like Germans 1920s could end up Nazis. Stephen West on his excellent podcast Philosophize This, does a good job of summarizing Fromm's thinking on this issue. Text below and link to transcript, go to middle of page. Sort of explains the right wing obsession of 'owning the Libs'.
"All of the people who support an authoritarian power structure are equally authoritarian as well. Someone who uses this strategy reconnects themselves to the world through what Fromm calls a type of sadomasochism. Two words there—sadism and masochism: sadism being the desire to control others, to dominate exploit or steal from others; masochism being the desire to submit to some power and be controlled or dominated. The authoritarian is sadistic in the sense that they want to support an authoritarian setup so that other people and groups will be controlled. But they are masochistic in the sense that they themselves want to submit to that authority as part of the process.
Both of these are a direct sacrifice of their freedom and individuality. See, as a sadist, you cannot exist unless if you have somebody else to control. You’re no longer capable of being an individual at that point. And as a masochist, same thing, you cannot exist unless if there’s somebody out there to control or dominate you. But consider this. Freud said and Fromm agreed that you never really see sadism in a person without some type of masochism attached to it, and vice versa. He says Hitler may have been an extreme example of somebody who was sadistic, but he was always masochistic towards his position within history and the ideas of fate and chance.
People with this authoritarian mindset will often escape from freedom by looking around them and finding out where the power structures lie. They’re very good at searching out and finding where there’s a concentration of power. Then masochistically they submit and insinuate themselves into that power structure. They become one small part of this power structure—something they see as bigger than themselves, something that’s compensating for their weaknesses as a scared individual—and then they’ll use their position as a foot soldier of that authoritarian to then take out their sadistic tendencies on other people in the name of this thing that they’ve submitted to." https://www.philosophizethis.org/transcript/episode-151-transcript?rq=sadomasochism
Thank you for this post. This makes a lot of sense if you stop and observe human society and human history. It’s a pernicious mindset that knows no geographic boundaries. We are dealing with the amped up American version right now. They are always there waiting for a charismatic strongman to emerge. What’s the antidote? Actual Justice. Steadfast, boring Justice.
The last paragraph in this brought Lindsey Graham to mind. He first attached himself to John McCain, who unfortunately died. Then, after excoriating tRump during the 2016 election, immediately bowed, and kissed the ring.
Wow, exactly the point in “Adventures of A Bystander,” Peter Drucker account of pre-war Vienna as Nazis ensnared the “vulnerable,” who soon would become the feared.
Yes, I think so. It comes (IMHO) from poor self image and therefore a need to be controlled so as not to do BAD things. Projecting onto others that they too need to be controlled because they will do BAD things if left to their own devices.
Now, where does all this sexual dysfunction stuff come from?
I think you're onto something, and not just with Evangelicals. This Christian faith (to include Catholics and the various one true ways of Protestantism) is based upon the willing sacrifice of their figurehead, Jesus.
100Panthers, Your comment and LINK have provided us with an uncommon gift of thinking and analysis through Stephen West's 'This is Philosophize This!'. In the transcript, which you linked, West addressed Erich Fromm's landmark book 'Escape from Freedom'. I hope that you will not mind that I intend to pass your comment around (edited to reduce space) along with the link because Fromm and West call us to understand ourselves, the complexities of 'freedom' and why democracy is challenged. 'Escape from Freedom' is as a lens through which to see ourselves; other people; the challenges to freedom in USA and states around the world now and in the past. Thank you for this generous offering.
I was about 12 when I found out about the Holocaust and remember how horrified I was. I was staring at this black and white photo in disbelief at how and why hoards of normal-looking people could be adoring Hitler, who to me looked like the devil. Yours is an explanation but no less horrifying....
Dana, I was 17 in 1966 and had spent the summer with a French family. The young (and not-so-young) people I met were appalled at how ignorant the American people seemed to the French. The Vietnam war was in full swing, the anti-war demonstrations were all over the news and yet, we allowed the war to go on and on and on. The French knew the folly of fighting a motivated “guerrilla” army. Things haven’t changed much in the US, or actually gotten worse. Even with the availability of incredible amounts of information and FACTS. Omg.
Hmm... Didn't the US essentially take the conflict over from the French when the Vietnamese beat them at Dien Bien Phu? The French learned their "lesson" by being beaten, not through some form of cultural enlightenment. The Vietnamese taught us the same "lesson" in the same way, almost exactly 20 years later.
Sorry....your statement about Abrahamic religions is nonsense. For example, the Talmudic tradition involves logic (much of which is relevant to the scientific method), interrogation, argument, etc. I agree, however, that religion generally is too prevalent in American politics. It shouldn't be, but it is. Faith can be very centering and anchoring for communities and, in and of itself, is not objectionable. But one's individual faith should not form the basis of imposing views on others...it is an aspect of politics and policy in many countries other than America as well.
Here's something else to consider, Elisabeth. Just WHY was Kushner "gifted" $2 billion from MBS - I'm thinking nuclear secrets... Someone else on MSNBC has said this too.
I made that connection too after the search. The timing of the search was interesting, coming right after the Saudi sponsored golf tournament at Trump's Bedminster club. I am wondering if the money invested with Kushner, and that golf tournament was a "down payment" for the information that TFG was holding. I am hoping the Fed's were able to retrieve these documents before they went to the Saudis. TFG strikes me as the kind of guy who wouldn't cough up the goods until he got paid.
Whaddya mean by "retrieve these documents?" Anyone with a cellphone and a thumb can make as many copies of those documents as they like, and probably have.
Yes, I totally agree with you. That he thinks these classified documents are “mine”( his) is chilling. This executive privilege that he claims to think he has is pure idiocy when he is no longer an executive. I am with several commentators here who say that he needs to be stopped and soon. I have no doubt that he has sold some of these sensitive documents to the highest bidder be they adversarial or not. When all of this is said and done( and it may never be completely done) this is going to turn out to be the biggest presidential crime in our history, bar none.
On the other hand, as a transactional creature, Trump may have been holding on to the documents for future use- selling them too early would have diminished their value. Or, given the very odd way he has of thinking about things ("mine") he may even have done the very child-like behavior of trying to hoard things that confirmed his sense of identity. I don't think we have a clue which of these might be his driving force. We do know that once he realized that he'd created a situation he couldn't get out of, he has been off the rails legally and increasingly psychologically. Nobody will every make a movie as interesting as watching this in real life (with a great sense of relief, I might add).
There is an annoying thought that keeps surfacing when I read the accounts of how many documents and the sensitivity of what 45 stole from us, The People. AND…..WHAT THE HELL he was doing for the 48 months or so, before leaving office??? Was he buying and selling sensitive intel as soon as he stepped into the Oval Office? I get sick to my stomach just trying to wrap my mind around the enormity of what this criminal has done to our country…..
those of us who knew Hillary was the better choice and those who knew DJT was a grifter before 2016 will always have that awful gnawing feeling of what could have been.
The images I had of TFG were
1) of a bull in a china shop (destroying all the beautiful, valuable things inside and leaving a lot of bull****
2) of a dumpster fire (stinky and polluting)
3) of a continuing train wreck (which also fits that all the damage he did to our national institutions continue to resonate - you cannot stop momentum. That's why President Joe Biden is STILL putting out fires from the last administration!
4) the absolute disaster of the Titanic's maiden voyage (let's talk about Climate Change while we are at it, and all the rats I am amazed are not more visibly jumping ship)
but the one that REALLY captures his entire existence is
5) chumming the waters. He spreads blood, destruction, violence and consumption.
He is beyond awful.
I do believe you’ve stated things perfectly. Trump was(and still is)the thing of night terrors.
Part of the disaster is that he’s modeled behavior now copied by the winner of the Florida primary. That man appears to be just as corrupt, but smarter.
and the malignant behavior trump modeled gave permission for the masses to be their worst selves.
malignant is a good word, infectious also comes to mind.
Does anybody REALIZE MORE THAN 1 in every 350 Americans have DIED of Covid?
It's because TFG dismantled the pandemic surveillance systems, then tried to downplay Covid even though at the same time he told Woodward he had been informed of the dire risks, then because Dr. Fauci was getting TV coverage he got jealous and took over the daily press briefings and started talking ..."crazy"
[I refer everyone back to Sarah Cooper's "how to medical" parody using TFG's OWN WORDS!!!]
https://youtu.be/RxDKW75ueIU
“You cannot stop momentum,”. Ike did but at what a cost. Are we prepared.
Excellent, Beverly. I would add:
(6) hazardous materials fire, like a military burn pit, or alternatively a chemical spill, and
(7) radioactive waste storage site, maybe Chernobyl
He was grifting the entire time he occupied the WH and one does wonder how much selling of intel he did in four years. He is the worst thing that has ever happened since the Civil War and certainly the worst to occupy the WH. And yes, a traitor. We were over to our neighbors for a drink and chat this evening and we were wondering why people, especially women, think he is great. And yes, we had some answers. In the best circumstances it will take years to cut out this festering cancer.
Usually cults are seen as crazy by the majority. Rupert made this one mainstream. And he is still blathering propaganda to the masses of asses. Clones are carrying it to the depths of hell. And Leo’s money is buying more adherents by the nanosecond. Germany acknowledged their evil, with a nudge from Ike. Who will excise our cancer???
we who vote blue will. And we who value the rule of law, common decency, and respect for each other, will. I hope.
It's all so disturbing. His utter disrespect for the office, never to blame, always victimized, always right, and always out for himself is a very scary combination in a president. What a nightmare we are going through.
Cults are built in. Why?
Good question! Take a look at Erich Fromm, who sought to understand how an advanced culturally sophisticated people like Germans 1920s could end up Nazis. Stephen West on his excellent podcast Philosophize This, does a good job of summarizing Fromm's thinking on this issue. Text below and link to transcript, go to middle of page. Sort of explains the right wing obsession of 'owning the Libs'.
"All of the people who support an authoritarian power structure are equally authoritarian as well. Someone who uses this strategy reconnects themselves to the world through what Fromm calls a type of sadomasochism. Two words there—sadism and masochism: sadism being the desire to control others, to dominate exploit or steal from others; masochism being the desire to submit to some power and be controlled or dominated. The authoritarian is sadistic in the sense that they want to support an authoritarian setup so that other people and groups will be controlled. But they are masochistic in the sense that they themselves want to submit to that authority as part of the process.
Both of these are a direct sacrifice of their freedom and individuality. See, as a sadist, you cannot exist unless if you have somebody else to control. You’re no longer capable of being an individual at that point. And as a masochist, same thing, you cannot exist unless if there’s somebody out there to control or dominate you. But consider this. Freud said and Fromm agreed that you never really see sadism in a person without some type of masochism attached to it, and vice versa. He says Hitler may have been an extreme example of somebody who was sadistic, but he was always masochistic towards his position within history and the ideas of fate and chance.
People with this authoritarian mindset will often escape from freedom by looking around them and finding out where the power structures lie. They’re very good at searching out and finding where there’s a concentration of power. Then masochistically they submit and insinuate themselves into that power structure. They become one small part of this power structure—something they see as bigger than themselves, something that’s compensating for their weaknesses as a scared individual—and then they’ll use their position as a foot soldier of that authoritarian to then take out their sadistic tendencies on other people in the name of this thing that they’ve submitted to." https://www.philosophizethis.org/transcript/episode-151-transcript?rq=sadomasochism
Terrific post, 100! Thank you! I am sure Ruth Ben-Ghiat would have a great deal to say about your text. We are in deep do-do….
Thank you for this post. This makes a lot of sense if you stop and observe human society and human history. It’s a pernicious mindset that knows no geographic boundaries. We are dealing with the amped up American version right now. They are always there waiting for a charismatic strongman to emerge. What’s the antidote? Actual Justice. Steadfast, boring Justice.
The last paragraph in this brought Lindsey Graham to mind. He first attached himself to John McCain, who unfortunately died. Then, after excoriating tRump during the 2016 election, immediately bowed, and kissed the ring.
Wow, exactly the point in “Adventures of A Bystander,” Peter Drucker account of pre-war Vienna as Nazis ensnared the “vulnerable,” who soon would become the feared.
Wow. This. Erich Fromm has always been one of my favorites. Thank you for (tragically) reminding me why.
Does this suggest that all Evangelicals are sadomasochists? If so, then this gives credence to why they are described as Christo-fascists.
Yes, I think so. It comes (IMHO) from poor self image and therefore a need to be controlled so as not to do BAD things. Projecting onto others that they too need to be controlled because they will do BAD things if left to their own devices.
Now, where does all this sexual dysfunction stuff come from?
I think you're onto something, and not just with Evangelicals. This Christian faith (to include Catholics and the various one true ways of Protestantism) is based upon the willing sacrifice of their figurehead, Jesus.
100Panthers, Your comment and LINK have provided us with an uncommon gift of thinking and analysis through Stephen West's 'This is Philosophize This!'. In the transcript, which you linked, West addressed Erich Fromm's landmark book 'Escape from Freedom'. I hope that you will not mind that I intend to pass your comment around (edited to reduce space) along with the link because Fromm and West call us to understand ourselves, the complexities of 'freedom' and why democracy is challenged. 'Escape from Freedom' is as a lens through which to see ourselves; other people; the challenges to freedom in USA and states around the world now and in the past. Thank you for this generous offering.
I was about 12 when I found out about the Holocaust and remember how horrified I was. I was staring at this black and white photo in disbelief at how and why hoards of normal-looking people could be adoring Hitler, who to me looked like the devil. Yours is an explanation but no less horrifying....
I lived it from the time I was born. Daughter of Holocaust victims here.
👍🏼
Thanks!
Whoa….
100Panthers, I edited my reply to you. It is now updated. Thank you.
Penfist, because people would rather die than think, and they do. Bertrand Russell said that, I think that....
'I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong.'
Bertrand Russell
Took me a while to appreciate him
You must live to fight again.
'He that fights and runs away, May turn and fight another day; But he that is in battle slain, Will never rise to fight again.'
Tacitus
Gaius Cornelius Tacitus • Publius Cornelius Tacitus
Born 56
Died c.120
Title / Office consul (97), Roman Empire • governor (112-113), Asia
Notable Works “Annals” • “De vita Julii Agricolae” • “Dialogus de oratoribus” • “Germania” • “Historiae”
For more information about Tacitus, see the link below.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Tacitus-Roman-historian
You're right about people not thinking. That's the most frightening thing about Americans. It's why we frighten the rest of the civilized world.
Dana, I was 17 in 1966 and had spent the summer with a French family. The young (and not-so-young) people I met were appalled at how ignorant the American people seemed to the French. The Vietnam war was in full swing, the anti-war demonstrations were all over the news and yet, we allowed the war to go on and on and on. The French knew the folly of fighting a motivated “guerrilla” army. Things haven’t changed much in the US, or actually gotten worse. Even with the availability of incredible amounts of information and FACTS. Omg.
We Americans have an unfortunate habit of always learning our lessons the hard way. We can be the most pigheaded people. Apologies to actual pigs.
Hmm... Didn't the US essentially take the conflict over from the French when the Vietnamese beat them at Dien Bien Phu? The French learned their "lesson" by being beaten, not through some form of cultural enlightenment. The Vietnamese taught us the same "lesson" in the same way, almost exactly 20 years later.
And also mountains of propaganda since that time, which I remember well.
The Abrahamic religions very explicitly encourage people not to think, and far too much American policy is underpinned by these religions.
Sorry....your statement about Abrahamic religions is nonsense. For example, the Talmudic tradition involves logic (much of which is relevant to the scientific method), interrogation, argument, etc. I agree, however, that religion generally is too prevalent in American politics. It shouldn't be, but it is. Faith can be very centering and anchoring for communities and, in and of itself, is not objectionable. But one's individual faith should not form the basis of imposing views on others...it is an aspect of politics and policy in many countries other than America as well.
What Michele says
Here's something else to consider, Elisabeth. Just WHY was Kushner "gifted" $2 billion from MBS - I'm thinking nuclear secrets... Someone else on MSNBC has said this too.
I made that connection too after the search. The timing of the search was interesting, coming right after the Saudi sponsored golf tournament at Trump's Bedminster club. I am wondering if the money invested with Kushner, and that golf tournament was a "down payment" for the information that TFG was holding. I am hoping the Fed's were able to retrieve these documents before they went to the Saudis. TFG strikes me as the kind of guy who wouldn't cough up the goods until he got paid.
Whaddya mean by "retrieve these documents?" Anyone with a cellphone and a thumb can make as many copies of those documents as they like, and probably have.
Yes, the authorities have to assume that all of that material has been compromised, revealed, shared.
Dana, there is no question in my mind that was the result of that 2B.
AHA!
Yes, I totally agree with you. That he thinks these classified documents are “mine”( his) is chilling. This executive privilege that he claims to think he has is pure idiocy when he is no longer an executive. I am with several commentators here who say that he needs to be stopped and soon. I have no doubt that he has sold some of these sensitive documents to the highest bidder be they adversarial or not. When all of this is said and done( and it may never be completely done) this is going to turn out to be the biggest presidential crime in our history, bar none.
On the other hand, as a transactional creature, Trump may have been holding on to the documents for future use- selling them too early would have diminished their value. Or, given the very odd way he has of thinking about things ("mine") he may even have done the very child-like behavior of trying to hoard things that confirmed his sense of identity. I don't think we have a clue which of these might be his driving force. We do know that once he realized that he'd created a situation he couldn't get out of, he has been off the rails legally and increasingly psychologically. Nobody will every make a movie as interesting as watching this in real life (with a great sense of relief, I might add).
Frank Figluzzi(former fbi)couldn’t figure why fbi took so long after all the lying and bs that transpired between the first haul and this latest.
That is THE question. Don’t know about you but I’m almost afraid to find out the answer to it.
Yes, he was. I am sure. He is not really human. He is just an empty, transactional creature.