There are no words to describe Ho’s opinion on “being denied enjoyment” of the birth of a child. There is no logic in his half-assed logic. Please, women unit- become pregnant so some Dr can enjoy your delivery experience. OMG - what have we become?
It is once again extreme narcissism pretending to be virtue. He says "In cases where the government “approved some action—such as developing land or using pesticides—that threatens to destroy…animal or plant life that plaintiffs wish to enjoy,”, it is not, I would hope, my personal opinion of animal or plant life that would sway a sane court decision but many other factors such as species endangerment, and other factors that impact the integrity of the environment and society. It may impact what is done with a section of land, but does not otherwise impact how a person lives their own life. It's a trumped up rational for claiming the right to run the life of another.
J L, as you, I’m trying to understand, grasp, the logic between the comparison of “using pesticides” and the birth of a child? Where is this justices’ thinking, really? Is this narcissistic idiot actually comparing the use of pesticides to control pest and unwanted insects on land to the birth of a child or not?
I’m not getting that logic. I was born, and raised on a farm. I lived in that farming environment my first 21 years of my life. What’s even more interesting. After my law enforcement and firefighting career I returned to the agriculture field, so to speak, and have been reporting agriculture news since 1995. I have seen, first hand how agriculture in this country has evolved since the early 60s to now. Believe me, it’s evolved probably as much as birthing children.
Now that’s a field I have absolutely no expertise in.
A. I’m a man, so obviously I’ve never experienced childbirth, and probably won’t ever.
B. I have no natural children I’ve fathered, so, I’ve not had to experience childbirth with my wife, or woman.
C. I have enough brains to know that the medical field has evolved over the past 6 decades, just as the agriculture field has evolved.
I have enough sense to know that a woman becoming pregnant is the “evolution of life”. BUT, I also have enough brains to know that I’m the event something happens, beyond this woman’s control, this child may not be able to be carried to term, it may become medically necessary to “terminate the pregnancy” for the good of the mother or some other reason, medically. Plus, I also know first hand that there are young women that become pregnant through some type of rape, or incest, and fir the young woman to live, that pregnancy must be terminated.
As I have said above, I have absolutely no expertise in this medical field. All I’ve ever had to do with childbirth is birthing a child in the backseat of my patrol car in the early 70s while transporting a woman to the hospital, and my experiences while with the fire service as an EMT, birthing children in patients homes, or the back of the ambulance. That’s it! And even that field has evolved tremendously since I was in it!
So, all this said, I’m going back to my original question. Where does thus Justice get off comparing the birth of a child to a farmer, or homeowner for that matter, spraying pesticides to control pest and insects on their land?
I can just about guarantee that there’s no comparison at all!
What needs to happen is the legislators need to keep their noses out if the medical field. Last I looked, a majority of them have little, to no, medical training or education. I’ve probably had a hell of a lot more than the majority of them, and I leave all my medical decisions for me, for my body, to my doctor!
Thank you for sharing your real world experiences. These trump judges are checked out living in a solipsistic state of mind We need a tidal wave rejection of GOP and restoration of sane governance
I really wish everyone of the bastards would have to switch jobs with a person doing hard physical labor for food for one full year. It would be the best thing that ever happened to this country.
In 2021 there were 144,000 rapes in the U.S. 1 in 20 rapes results in a pregnancy. Imagine a 26-year old wife and a 28-year old husband having to carry that pregnancy to term. What does that do to their lives?
Why do men rape? Sexually harass, grope, intimidate? We spend our time talking about the horrific outcomes of rape, but never how to stop men from raping in the first place.
The “enjoyment” of a natural piece of land - or any natural aspect of our existence - is NOT the legal rationale for maintaining that element.
Why were laws made to stop me from “enjoying” weed? Magic mushrooms? And on the order of how people’s bodies are used, how about the sexual favors of people who don’t want to share theirs with me …
EGAD, this “judge” needs to be taken out of the practice of jurisprudence!!! He’s totally off his rocker.
This is why the Republican filled so many position when tfg was in the White House! They are corrupt! Apparently we have a lot of corruption in the Republican Party. What a shame it is! They know how to brainwash the public! Thankfully there are more of us than there are of them!
This current makeup of SCOTUS has been working on preventing use of green energy sources; so why would they allow outlawing pesticides from being used? https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/06/1121782
Then when insurance companies deny claims saying they won't pay because the procedure is for cosmetic reasons, then by Ho's logic, the patient suffers an "aesthetic" injury. What bullsh*t! He's out of his mind.
Exactly. Depriving them (whole independent persons) of their inalienable rights. "Narcissism pretending virtue." That is apparently the gop litmus test for potential leaders and justices. The 'party' of law and order my azz... They seem to intend mockery of established law with the intent to disrupt any semblance of order.
"Narcissism" popped into my mind too, along with "misogyny." I also can't wait for Judge Ho to apply his "logic" to the "conscience injury" and "aesthetic injury" perpetuated by racist laws or, for that matter, laws that force a woman to bear a child whether she wants to or not.
Donna, I couldn't agree more. This was a real gag a maggot opinion. "Judge" Ho is just another far right wing nut. It is certainly one of the worst opinions I have ever read. So women should get PG to make some anti abortion doctors happy and to have an abortion is to deprive them of that pleasure. May Ho be a poor woman in his next life with an unwanted pregnancy.
And I doubt seriously that this judge would be all in favor of the EPA and the Clean air and water acts, either. And would not even see any contradiction in that. 🙄
Extreme narcissism perhaps. But there is no correlation (in this argument) between the worlds of plants or animals and the world of humans. Wonder if this guy lost his train of thought along the way.....?.....
Trying to grasp the logic of these right wing judges and justices is a fool’s errand. Most of their loony opinions are retrofitted contortions of law aimed at supporting their activist agenda and pleasing their deep pocketed supporters allied with the Federalist Society. They act like they are in a debate club, with no regard for the real human lives their decisions might destroy. Putting personal aesthetics or individual moral superiority above human life is the height of crass elitism. I thought I had no words for this outrage, but apparently I do.
True, it's a fool's errand, but I appreciate being exposed to their so-called logic because I'd have a hard time imagining it otherwise -- or realizing how deeply misogynistic, racist, and anti-democratic the whole right-wing project is. As we used to say back in the old days, "The truth will set you free -- but first it will piss you off."
If I'd read it in a reputable newspaper 8 years ago, I wouldn't have believed it -- and this isn't because I was born yesterday, or lack an imagination.
Do you wonder about their wives? I always wonder what kinds of lives they have. Time to dismantle the “Heritage” Society before we have no “uncontaminated” lawyers left.
As we learned from the failure to pass the ERA for so many decades, there are women who have been so thoroughly indoctrinated in the right wing rhetoric, they have come to ally themselves with their captors, as it were. A kind of Stockholm Syndrome. I suspect many of the wives are there.
Yes! Have been thinking lately about the path of women in Christendom since the Roman Catholic Church gave us souls in the 12th century. Loved reading the footnotes in “The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo” trilogy about pre-Christian women. Also there’s Aristophanes’ “Lysistrata” which needs revival. First novel was written by a Sumerian woman, contemporary of Aristophanes or earlier(?).
I repress the memory of Phyllis Schafley. It’s too offensive now as it was then. But today an excellent reminder of historic Republican horrors. Thank you.
(And don't you just love being compared to animals who give the observer pleasure? That comparison made me cringe with the obvious patriarchy /voyeurism of this guy.)
Impregnate them against their will. Brand them with a "P" to prevent them from circumventing the "law", then put them in a caged theater for the "pleasure" of the observer. Ah no, that might sound a bit too harsh, let's say: "for their "own protection" from their imperfect wills". Act three, release them and their "crop" to the world to figure it all out on their own while the audience swoons with aesthetic pleasure and moral superiority.
Considering that this bunch already thinks that animals - domestic & wild - as just some resource placed here for their "use" - no surprise that we - women - (in his feeble mind) should be put to the same "use", is it?
This guy is an idiot - just think - HE is a judge - entitled (?) to decide OUR issues! This "decision" - IN HIS WORDS - should be on a billboard!
This loon has twin children, and one of them is a daughter. Let that sink in. He actually thinks some rando doctor's voyeuristic pleasure in these ultrasounds (ew) means more than his own daughter's health, mental and physical, and her personal freedom. I weep for her.
What do you think about not using the term 'patriarchy' as a disparagement which does harm to the concept of fatherhood and that, instead, we would use 'predation'?
The definition of patriarchy is a system of society or government, not fatherhood. Yes, patriarchy, the word is based on a word meaning father, but the word is not used to mean father.
Roxanna, have to disagree. "Fatherhood" is a perfectly good word for fatherhood, and "patriarchy" is an instantly recognizable, carefully curated word to express the horrors —very much starting with predation — that it encompasses. We need to be not reinventing the wheel, rather building on the ground we've gained.
Thanks, Alexandra. It's something I've pondered for a while and am really glad to have had a chance to converse with people about it. I've come to realize exactly what the word means and why it exists.
Hi Roxanna, I do think I could have chosen another word, and your point is well taken. For me, even the concept of patriarchy is loaded with negativity such as "authoritarian," "patronizing," (that is the word I should have used,) controlling and condescending.
That may be my wounds speaking. Fatherhood stands alone as a great word and concept.
I agree with the loading that makes memories too heavy since we could probably more easily live without that. Patronizing is terrific! I tried predatory because the people I'm thinking about seem to be going in for the kill, not just the control. But, maybe that's the Ukrainian in me, especially during this time.
Refugees from Central American starvation and/or gang murders. That is who is in "their" waters. Hung up on razor wire, or drowned under murder balloons.
Thomas, Crow, Cruz, and Ho, words fail me (that are for polite company) that can thoroughly describe this gathering. The only pleasure I would gather is if they were in a caged jail cell for their multiple crimes against the Constitution and the citizens of our country.
When I was young I used to wonder about this thing called the “male patriarchy”. I am male and was raised by a principled mother. In our house her word was reasonable and final. My dad loved and respected her.
I had strong female teachers through all my schooling. Not exclusively female, but lots of them.
I thought the concept of “male patriarchy” baffling until I was maybe in my Thirties. Then I understood.
Today Justice Ho did a paint by numbers for the doubting in his less than specious meandering. I found it difficult to read the text without wondering if he was joking. Good God.
Actually, from their perspective, the role of White women is to have babies so as to avoid White people being replaced. And this whole issue with abortion is designed to distract people from the fact that Republicans are trying to destroy our democracy, such as it is, so that they can hold on to power and stuff their pockets and those of the already monied classes.
“Republicans are trying to destroy our democracy, such as it is, so that they can hold on to power and stuff their pockets and those of the already monied classes.” Republicans answer to who funds them which would be the Uber wealthy
I think it depends upon which Republicans you are talking about. The Republican Elite, which I take to mean the very wealthy and their legislative representatives know exactly what they are doing. The folks who voter may not realize how much they have been influenced.
Ho should indulge his “enjoyment” by being forced to intimately observe (AND FEEL) the lifetime injuries incurred by forcing a child to give birth from rape.
Or at least to consider the aesthetic injury of a thirteen year old unable to enjoy seventh grade because she’s a mom now, completely against her will.
Absolutely the heart of the trauma....but it is one that will live forever in that child and all those who love her. May they be able to love her hard enough to ease the pain of a double rape, once by an animal and secondly by the state.
And may there be food for her AND her mother. May she be able to finish school and realize her dreams for herself and her child. Now if she were financially secure... .
Judge James Ho quoted an anti-abortion doctor who putatively declared “When my patients have chemical abortions, I lose the opportunity … to care for the woman and child through pregnancy and bring about a successful delivery of new life.”
When I decide not to buy a shiny used car, do I cause the salesperson to lose the opportunity to instill in me the joy of tooling around the neighborhood in a shiny new set of wheels?
Here, we are talking about staking the fundamental lifelong right of a woman's corporal autonomy against the temporary aesthetic sensibilities of a doctor.
By this reasoning, it is the doctor, not the mother, with the overriding interest in such a case. Absurd? Yes, but less absurd than Judge Ho's argumentation because his is presented as serious.
IKR? To hell with what the woman--who does the actual bearing of the supposed "joyous viewing by the obstetrician"--has to go through, mentally, physically and financially or that carrying a fetus with significant birth defects may not be the joy that Judge Ho thinks it must be. I have to wonder what convoluted maze he wandered through to come up with such a screwy, irrational argument.
I totally agree...all the ulta right-winger judicial opinions are clearly shaped into the same mold by the 'oh-so-wonderful' Federalist Society. It's all reactionary Catholicism with plenty of added racism and misogyny for the pleasure of the yt male patriarchy.
Joyce, This should give you some words: “Judge James Ho, who was sworn into office by Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas in his billionaire benefactor Harlan Crow’s library in 2018...”. Looks an awful lot like oligarchical influence couched as religious pablum to me.
I think Judge Ho should be investigated to see how many children he has fathered, or how many abortions he has paid for. A man with such deep "insights" must have had several such traumatic experiences himself. Hypocritical? Never user the banner of god.
When I delivered my first child, even with the help of (some might say because of) the episiotomy, I ripped all the way to my rectum. (I know, TMI). My doc cussed as it happened. I could give way more unwanted "TMI" to discuss the aftereffects of that situation. I would love ANY anti-abortionist to experience that with me.
Almost all men, which I am a man, don't have a clue to what women go through in way too many ways. I have some through watching Call The Midwife and seeing a very dear lady to me and what she goes through in too many ways.
Women, please, unite and take more control - correct this male shit!
Stephen, I am a bit amused that much of the trials that tRump is going/about to go through is due to strong, black, WOMEN.
Not all men are bad--I count my father, husband, son, nephews and nephews in law. And some very good men I have had the pleasure of knowing in my decades on this earth.
My husband did watch all three children being born. One memory of that first birth is of pushing as hard as I could, and hearing my husband frantically saying "she's turning blue!!"
If you've been commenting on this forum for a while, I might have missed you. There's way too many comments to keep up with them all. That being said, there are SO MANY great people who read and comment on here! (yeah, some a-holes too but not many) They have truly been a blessing to me.
Women AND Men must unite to transform this Pathological Patriarchy. You see how courageous individuals of both genders work together in grassroots organizations like Delaware Coalition Against Domestic Violence AND in the superb series: THE HANDMAID'S TALE
His reasoning is obscene. Using that non-logic, a woman's body isn't her own at all and is subject to the whims of the observer.
I realize this is their goal and I am enraged. They deserve the fate in the woods of the Joseph Fiennes character in the televised version of "Handmaid's Tale".
Popcorn? 3-D glasses? or like in the Rocky Horror Picture Show where everyone gets dressed up in surgical garb and masks (oops no masks-they wouldn't wear them any way)
Just one word needed to describe Judge James Ho and others of like him: Perverts! He, and those like him, must immediately cease & desist, because his warped thinking and actions are causing me an aesthetic injury due to his interfering with my enjoyment of living in a sane and normal world!
If SCOTUS rules in favor of Ho's interpretation the next step would logically be to challenge birth control--because if "aesthetic considerations " of voyeuristic doctors are all that counts, then they cannot be denied ANY potential opportunity for more ultrasounds of fetuses to be provided for their enjoyment. A whole new type of pornography...
"The Handmaid's Tale" is no longer fiction. Perhaps all women in America will need to be placed in pre-natal zoos during their pregnancies for the optimal fetishistic experiences of sickos like Ho.
.... All our daughter's required to regularly submit menses records to some appropriately designated gop appointed authority... Dystopian doesn't quite cover it.
I immediately thought of Handmaid's Tale as well. Unbelievable that Ho can write this opinion with a straight face, and no mention of the harm that may come to a mother from having an unwanted child for the enjoyment of her doctor.
The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood : Inspired by US politics surrounding the issue of abortion in the 80's as viewed by this Canadien writer extrapolating about how this movement might play out in the near future . A quick review, via WIKI, I know, but it comes with substantial links, brings those years and the struggles all back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Handmaid%27s_Tale#cite_note-:12-17
Per Margaret Atwood while discussing "Oryx and Crake". "As with The Handmaid's Tale, I didn't put in anything that we haven't already done, we're not already doing, we're seriously trying to do, coupled with trends that are already in progress... So all of those things are real, and therefore the amount of pure invention is close to nil."
IMHO....The court and legislative action today is positively dripping the Atwood's brilliant "Handmaid's Tale", souped up with the anti abortion movement's 40 year stealth takeover of SCOTUS (and state governments) all in direct service to their goal of removing a woman's choice over her own body. Going further, they have moved to the horror of forcing a 13 yer old rape victim to go through 9 long months of a pregnancy, endure the fright (to a 13 yr old) and risk of delivery and a live birth, not to even mention, the complex issues to follow. With this judgement, the uterus is a ward of the state, and punishment remains open to anyone attempting to violate "their aesthetic pleasure".
I admit that I am terribly exercised over this. I hope to revisit reason soon. But definitely, there is no way to question the brilliant prescience of Atwood's tale.
This is exactly their plan. The ultimate Republican utopia is to have complete control of women's bodies and minds (such as we possess). No doubt many see the "Handmaid's Tale" as a user's guide.
Seems the plot of the Handmaids Tale is the handbook (or one of the handbooks) the Christian Fascists in America seek to implement in the USA. No doubt Ho is one of those CF’s.
“The Handmaid's Tale is a futuristic dystopian novel….set in a near-future New England in a patriarchal, white supremacist, totalitarian theonomic state….which has overthrown the United States government.”
Definition of theonomic:
“Theonomy (from Greek theos "God" and nomos "law") is a hypothetical Christian form of government in which society is ruled by divine law. Theonomists hold that divine law, particularly the judicial laws of the Old Testament, should be observed by modern societies.”
“The precise definition of theonomy is the presumption that the Old Covenant judicial laws given to Israel have not been abrogated, and therefore all civil governments are morally obligated to enforce them (including the specific penalties).”
yes and any doc who can claim an "aesthetic injury" by not performing an abortion on a 13 year old who was raped is one sick SOB who needs serious mental help.
My sentiments exactly. Unless you’ve had to see the trauma inflicted on a raise victim, then keep your mouth shut in ruling against medical care that their physician believes that young woman needs.
This is exactly like insurance companies to me. We have insurance companies that have people sitting behind their big mahogany desk making medical decisions whether a person needs a procedure or not, even with multiple doctors agreeing through their examinations and testing that the procedure is necessary for life.
This is exactly the same thing. Here you have a justice comparing the birth of a child, or the pregnancy “process” to a farmer, landowner, homeowner, spraying pesticides to control pest and insects!
A. This justice, to my knowledge isn’t a farmer.
B. I’m guessing he’s a homeowner, so I’d hate to go into his home, especially if he hadn’t ever used any pesticide of any type to control the creepy crawlers, or the flies, etc in his home.
There’s no comparison between the two. None.
What needs to happen is all these legislators, and justices, keep their noses out if the examining room of the physicians. That’s no place for this type of nonsense. Let the doctors do their jobs and leave the decisions of childbirth, pregnancy, and everything else between the doctors and the patients!
Thanks, Patricia. This 💩💩💩💩pisses me the hell off every time I read something , or hear about, one of these idiot politicians or justices, or SCOTUS, making a ruling or trying to implement another dumb-ass law like this idiot has done. They have already backed up women’s rights over 130 years, voting rights back to pre-1909, and it sucks! What we have in Congress right now is a joke, and they have split this nation worse than it was during slavery, and just before the Civil War. It’s my fear that they, the Trumpublicans in Washington, and Frumpy, are going to keep going until some of their ‘sheep’ grab their guns and start shooting people willy-nilly. Then the war will be on!
Judge Ho should be required to care for that young Mississippi girl’s child 24 hours a day for the next 18 years (i.e. through adolescence). Every 2 a.m. feeding. Every diapering. Cleaning up every spit-up. Cooking every meal. Staying up with every fever. Helping with homework. Being there when the teenager says, “whatever” to everything. All of it. (In real life I would not want to inflict that man on any child. And on few adults.)
Why are we not playing up the monetary bump these doctors achieve by delivering an unwanted child vs the pregnant person ending the pregnancy? Of course the doctor would want to deliver! Soooooooo much more money.
Anti abortion gyn professionals surely have no business in that particular specialty. Compelled to cater to the state, as well as their personal belief structure, they are not able to deliver full care to the woman.
By that logic, denying a transplant doctor the opportunity to do transplant surgery by not donating an organ should be outlawed—and it would also save a life! Oh, wait—that would not be an unborn life—never mind.
It would please me to learn that Judge James Ho resigned. For him to deny my enjoyment would be an aesthetic injury.
There are no words to describe Ho’s opinion on “being denied enjoyment” of the birth of a child. There is no logic in his half-assed logic. Please, women unit- become pregnant so some Dr can enjoy your delivery experience. OMG - what have we become?
This is the weirdest reasoning I've ever heard. 🤯
It is once again extreme narcissism pretending to be virtue. He says "In cases where the government “approved some action—such as developing land or using pesticides—that threatens to destroy…animal or plant life that plaintiffs wish to enjoy,”, it is not, I would hope, my personal opinion of animal or plant life that would sway a sane court decision but many other factors such as species endangerment, and other factors that impact the integrity of the environment and society. It may impact what is done with a section of land, but does not otherwise impact how a person lives their own life. It's a trumped up rational for claiming the right to run the life of another.
J L, as you, I’m trying to understand, grasp, the logic between the comparison of “using pesticides” and the birth of a child? Where is this justices’ thinking, really? Is this narcissistic idiot actually comparing the use of pesticides to control pest and unwanted insects on land to the birth of a child or not?
I’m not getting that logic. I was born, and raised on a farm. I lived in that farming environment my first 21 years of my life. What’s even more interesting. After my law enforcement and firefighting career I returned to the agriculture field, so to speak, and have been reporting agriculture news since 1995. I have seen, first hand how agriculture in this country has evolved since the early 60s to now. Believe me, it’s evolved probably as much as birthing children.
Now that’s a field I have absolutely no expertise in.
A. I’m a man, so obviously I’ve never experienced childbirth, and probably won’t ever.
B. I have no natural children I’ve fathered, so, I’ve not had to experience childbirth with my wife, or woman.
C. I have enough brains to know that the medical field has evolved over the past 6 decades, just as the agriculture field has evolved.
I have enough sense to know that a woman becoming pregnant is the “evolution of life”. BUT, I also have enough brains to know that I’m the event something happens, beyond this woman’s control, this child may not be able to be carried to term, it may become medically necessary to “terminate the pregnancy” for the good of the mother or some other reason, medically. Plus, I also know first hand that there are young women that become pregnant through some type of rape, or incest, and fir the young woman to live, that pregnancy must be terminated.
As I have said above, I have absolutely no expertise in this medical field. All I’ve ever had to do with childbirth is birthing a child in the backseat of my patrol car in the early 70s while transporting a woman to the hospital, and my experiences while with the fire service as an EMT, birthing children in patients homes, or the back of the ambulance. That’s it! And even that field has evolved tremendously since I was in it!
So, all this said, I’m going back to my original question. Where does thus Justice get off comparing the birth of a child to a farmer, or homeowner for that matter, spraying pesticides to control pest and insects on their land?
I can just about guarantee that there’s no comparison at all!
What needs to happen is the legislators need to keep their noses out if the medical field. Last I looked, a majority of them have little, to no, medical training or education. I’ve probably had a hell of a lot more than the majority of them, and I leave all my medical decisions for me, for my body, to my doctor!
Thank you for sharing your real world experiences. These trump judges are checked out living in a solipsistic state of mind We need a tidal wave rejection of GOP and restoration of sane governance
I really wish everyone of the bastards would have to switch jobs with a person doing hard physical labor for food for one full year. It would be the best thing that ever happened to this country.
In 2021 there were 144,000 rapes in the U.S. 1 in 20 rapes results in a pregnancy. Imagine a 26-year old wife and a 28-year old husband having to carry that pregnancy to term. What does that do to their lives?
Why do men rape? Sexually harass, grope, intimidate? We spend our time talking about the horrific outcomes of rape, but never how to stop men from raping in the first place.
Simple answer…..destroy it, and their marriage.
The “enjoyment” of a natural piece of land - or any natural aspect of our existence - is NOT the legal rationale for maintaining that element.
Why were laws made to stop me from “enjoying” weed? Magic mushrooms? And on the order of how people’s bodies are used, how about the sexual favors of people who don’t want to share theirs with me …
EGAD, this “judge” needs to be taken out of the practice of jurisprudence!!! He’s totally off his rocker.
This is why the Republican filled so many position when tfg was in the White House! They are corrupt! Apparently we have a lot of corruption in the Republican Party. What a shame it is! They know how to brainwash the public! Thankfully there are more of us than there are of them!
"Us"? Meaning women? YES!!!
Someone should file a lawsuit outlawing all pesticides using Dr Ho’s argument.
This current makeup of SCOTUS has been working on preventing use of green energy sources; so why would they allow outlawing pesticides from being used? https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/06/1121782
Thank you for your account. Few could have the experience to have written it and fewer the skill. Ho is as ridiculous as SCOTUS and all the rest.
Then when insurance companies deny claims saying they won't pay because the procedure is for cosmetic reasons, then by Ho's logic, the patient suffers an "aesthetic" injury. What bullsh*t! He's out of his mind.
Jenn, this will surely be identified as an “Alito-ism”
🤣🤣🤣 Well said
Exactly. Depriving them (whole independent persons) of their inalienable rights. "Narcissism pretending virtue." That is apparently the gop litmus test for potential leaders and justices. The 'party' of law and order my azz... They seem to intend mockery of established law with the intent to disrupt any semblance of order.
what about the moral injury to defendants when they go in front of such a judge?
Can they ask for a change of venue since they might not get an impartial trial?
"Narcissism" popped into my mind too, along with "misogyny." I also can't wait for Judge Ho to apply his "logic" to the "conscience injury" and "aesthetic injury" perpetuated by racist laws or, for that matter, laws that force a woman to bear a child whether she wants to or not.
I couldn't find the words to explain how his argument made me, as a women, feel, but yours sure did! Also this picture does too.
Donna, I couldn't agree more. This was a real gag a maggot opinion. "Judge" Ho is just another far right wing nut. It is certainly one of the worst opinions I have ever read. So women should get PG to make some anti abortion doctors happy and to have an abortion is to deprive them of that pleasure. May Ho be a poor woman in his next life with an unwanted pregnancy.
And I doubt seriously that this judge would be all in favor of the EPA and the Clean air and water acts, either. And would not even see any contradiction in that. 🙄
Extreme narcissism perhaps. But there is no correlation (in this argument) between the worlds of plants or animals and the world of humans. Wonder if this guy lost his train of thought along the way.....?.....
Or his train of mind?........
Perhaps not, but I'll bet he's hoping we will.
Trying to grasp the logic of these right wing judges and justices is a fool’s errand. Most of their loony opinions are retrofitted contortions of law aimed at supporting their activist agenda and pleasing their deep pocketed supporters allied with the Federalist Society. They act like they are in a debate club, with no regard for the real human lives their decisions might destroy. Putting personal aesthetics or individual moral superiority above human life is the height of crass elitism. I thought I had no words for this outrage, but apparently I do.
True, it's a fool's errand, but I appreciate being exposed to their so-called logic because I'd have a hard time imagining it otherwise -- or realizing how deeply misogynistic, racist, and anti-democratic the whole right-wing project is. As we used to say back in the old days, "The truth will set you free -- but first it will piss you off."
Very good point. Every day we hear real stuff leaving their mouths that - if a novelist or playwright wrote it - would normally be unbelievable!
If I'd read it in a reputable newspaper 8 years ago, I wouldn't have believed it -- and this isn't because I was born yesterday, or lack an imagination.
Right??? Judges are supposed to listen to the arguments and decide, not craft an argument?
Do you wonder about their wives? I always wonder what kinds of lives they have. Time to dismantle the “Heritage” Society before we have no “uncontaminated” lawyers left.
As we learned from the failure to pass the ERA for so many decades, there are women who have been so thoroughly indoctrinated in the right wing rhetoric, they have come to ally themselves with their captors, as it were. A kind of Stockholm Syndrome. I suspect many of the wives are there.
Yes! Have been thinking lately about the path of women in Christendom since the Roman Catholic Church gave us souls in the 12th century. Loved reading the footnotes in “The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo” trilogy about pre-Christian women. Also there’s Aristophanes’ “Lysistrata” which needs revival. First novel was written by a Sumerian woman, contemporary of Aristophanes or earlier(?).
my sister :' (
Surely, handmaids themselves to Phyllis Schlafley and her devoted followers.
I repress the memory of Phyllis Schafley. It’s too offensive now as it was then. But today an excellent reminder of historic Republican horrors. Thank you.
Thank you, you found the words for a lot of us :)
(And don't you just love being compared to animals who give the observer pleasure? That comparison made me cringe with the obvious patriarchy /voyeurism of this guy.)
Impregnate them against their will. Brand them with a "P" to prevent them from circumventing the "law", then put them in a caged theater for the "pleasure" of the observer. Ah no, that might sound a bit too harsh, let's say: "for their "own protection" from their imperfect wills". Act three, release them and their "crop" to the world to figure it all out on their own while the audience swoons with aesthetic pleasure and moral superiority.
Hard to hit "like" when what you describe is so awful. Masterfully said.
TY Ally House. This has awakened the sleeping giant of feminine injustice from the 80's.
A modern Greek tragedy. However, remember who it is who is doomed by hubris - it wouldn't be the women in this scenario.
Wow, that is all too descriptive and horrifyingly too close of an observation. Yet that is exactly what the judge seems to described in his “opinion”.
Handmaids Tale anyone?
K Barnes, you nailed it perfectly, expertly, sadly.
That hit me too! As,Susanne Sturgis said above, " The truth will set you free . . . but first, it will piss you off!
I love animals, and, let's face it, we humans are animals. BUT the intent is all too ckear: women exist for men's pleasure and enjoyment.
BARF!!!
Considering that this bunch already thinks that animals - domestic & wild - as just some resource placed here for their "use" - no surprise that we - women - (in his feeble mind) should be put to the same "use", is it?
This guy is an idiot - just think - HE is a judge - entitled (?) to decide OUR issues! This "decision" - IN HIS WORDS - should be on a billboard!
This loon has twin children, and one of them is a daughter. Let that sink in. He actually thinks some rando doctor's voyeuristic pleasure in these ultrasounds (ew) means more than his own daughter's health, mental and physical, and her personal freedom. I weep for her.
Sure would be interesting to hear his wife's opinion, wouldnt it?
What do you think about not using the term 'patriarchy' as a disparagement which does harm to the concept of fatherhood and that, instead, we would use 'predation'?
The definition of patriarchy is a system of society or government, not fatherhood. Yes, patriarchy, the word is based on a word meaning father, but the word is not used to mean father.
Thanks for helping me figure this out, Mary Ellen.
Roxanna, have to disagree. "Fatherhood" is a perfectly good word for fatherhood, and "patriarchy" is an instantly recognizable, carefully curated word to express the horrors —very much starting with predation — that it encompasses. We need to be not reinventing the wheel, rather building on the ground we've gained.
Thanks, Alexandra. It's something I've pondered for a while and am really glad to have had a chance to converse with people about it. I've come to realize exactly what the word means and why it exists.
Hi Roxanna, I do think I could have chosen another word, and your point is well taken. For me, even the concept of patriarchy is loaded with negativity such as "authoritarian," "patronizing," (that is the word I should have used,) controlling and condescending.
That may be my wounds speaking. Fatherhood stands alone as a great word and concept.
I agree with the loading that makes memories too heavy since we could probably more easily live without that. Patronizing is terrific! I tried predatory because the people I'm thinking about seem to be going in for the kill, not just the control. But, maybe that's the Ukrainian in me, especially during this time.
Its men(?) like this that do harm to the concept! But have to agree, predation sure does fit.
What Maggie said!
This the most absurd and wonky logic I have ever heard! Ever! It would be laughable if real people WOMEN were not the object of this argument.
Texas seems to have become the state of "Do Harm Unto Others." What the hell got into their Republican waters?
Refugees from Central American starvation and/or gang murders. That is who is in "their" waters. Hung up on razor wire, or drowned under murder balloons.
Reasoning? It’s a word salad. He took communication lessons from tfg.
Thomas, Crow, Cruz, and Ho, words fail me (that are for polite company) that can thoroughly describe this gathering. The only pleasure I would gather is if they were in a caged jail cell for their multiple crimes against the Constitution and the citizens of our country.
When I was young I used to wonder about this thing called the “male patriarchy”. I am male and was raised by a principled mother. In our house her word was reasonable and final. My dad loved and respected her.
I had strong female teachers through all my schooling. Not exclusively female, but lots of them.
I thought the concept of “male patriarchy” baffling until I was maybe in my Thirties. Then I understood.
Today Justice Ho did a paint by numbers for the doubting in his less than specious meandering. I found it difficult to read the text without wondering if he was joking. Good God.
It is not reasoning, it is spewing poop from the mouth for the American people to step into.
The Handmaid’s Tale? Actually the role of women to have babies was a key plank of the Nazi Party.
How very fascist of Judge Ho.
He may as well have written “blessed be the fruit”.
Actually, from their perspective, the role of White women is to have babies so as to avoid White people being replaced. And this whole issue with abortion is designed to distract people from the fact that Republicans are trying to destroy our democracy, such as it is, so that they can hold on to power and stuff their pockets and those of the already monied classes.
“Republicans are trying to destroy our democracy, such as it is, so that they can hold on to power and stuff their pockets and those of the already monied classes.” Republicans answer to who funds them which would be the Uber wealthy
And the racists/misogynists brutes who bow and pray to their neon gods, their golden calf. Or are they merely misguided fools???
I think it depends upon which Republicans you are talking about. The Republican Elite, which I take to mean the very wealthy and their legislative representatives know exactly what they are doing. The folks who voter may not realize how much they have been influenced.
I have always thought that the aim of the anti-abortion movement is racist, to birth more white babies so whites won't be "replaced."
You have a point.
"The Handmaid’s Tale" -- Exactly what popped into my mind also. -- Dystopian fiction has become reality.
Ho should indulge his “enjoyment” by being forced to intimately observe (AND FEEL) the lifetime injuries incurred by forcing a child to give birth from rape.
Or at least to consider the aesthetic injury of a thirteen year old unable to enjoy seventh grade because she’s a mom now, completely against her will.
Absolutely the heart of the trauma....but it is one that will live forever in that child and all those who love her. May they be able to love her hard enough to ease the pain of a double rape, once by an animal and secondly by the state.
And may there be food for her AND her mother. May she be able to finish school and realize her dreams for herself and her child. Now if she were financially secure... .
Pure unadorned Piggy doo-doo.
Judge James Ho quoted an anti-abortion doctor who putatively declared “When my patients have chemical abortions, I lose the opportunity … to care for the woman and child through pregnancy and bring about a successful delivery of new life.”
When I decide not to buy a shiny used car, do I cause the salesperson to lose the opportunity to instill in me the joy of tooling around the neighborhood in a shiny new set of wheels?
Here, we are talking about staking the fundamental lifelong right of a woman's corporal autonomy against the temporary aesthetic sensibilities of a doctor.
By this reasoning, it is the doctor, not the mother, with the overriding interest in such a case. Absurd? Yes, but less absurd than Judge Ho's argumentation because his is presented as serious.
Holy guacamole!
IKR? To hell with what the woman--who does the actual bearing of the supposed "joyous viewing by the obstetrician"--has to go through, mentally, physically and financially or that carrying a fetus with significant birth defects may not be the joy that Judge Ho thinks it must be. I have to wonder what convoluted maze he wandered through to come up with such a screwy, irrational argument.
It’s the large and small intestine maze. He went through head first.
Think about the recent "supreme" court decisions & their "reasoning"!
I totally agree...all the ulta right-winger judicial opinions are clearly shaped into the same mold by the 'oh-so-wonderful' Federalist Society. It's all reactionary Catholicism with plenty of added racism and misogyny for the pleasure of the yt male patriarchy.
It's grotesque.
That’s the exact adjective for the unaesthetic!
Joyce, This should give you some words: “Judge James Ho, who was sworn into office by Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas in his billionaire benefactor Harlan Crow’s library in 2018...”. Looks an awful lot like oligarchical influence couched as religious pablum to me.
I think Judge Ho should be investigated to see how many children he has fathered, or how many abortions he has paid for. A man with such deep "insights" must have had several such traumatic experiences himself. Hypocritical? Never user the banner of god.
Total bullshit.
When I delivered my first child, even with the help of (some might say because of) the episiotomy, I ripped all the way to my rectum. (I know, TMI). My doc cussed as it happened. I could give way more unwanted "TMI" to discuss the aftereffects of that situation. I would love ANY anti-abortionist to experience that with me.
Almost all men, which I am a man, don't have a clue to what women go through in way too many ways. I have some through watching Call The Midwife and seeing a very dear lady to me and what she goes through in too many ways.
Women, please, unite and take more control - correct this male shit!
Stephen, I am a bit amused that much of the trials that tRump is going/about to go through is due to strong, black, WOMEN.
Not all men are bad--I count my father, husband, son, nephews and nephews in law. And some very good men I have had the pleasure of knowing in my decades on this earth.
My husband did watch all three children being born. One memory of that first birth is of pushing as hard as I could, and hearing my husband frantically saying "she's turning blue!!"
True. It's frustrating to me that there are way too many A-holes out there that think they have the tougher jobs...
If you've been commenting on this forum for a while, I might have missed you. There's way too many comments to keep up with them all. That being said, there are SO MANY great people who read and comment on here! (yeah, some a-holes too but not many) They have truly been a blessing to me.
I believe better times are coming!
If you are fairly new to the forum, welcome!
Women AND Men must unite to transform this Pathological Patriarchy. You see how courageous individuals of both genders work together in grassroots organizations like Delaware Coalition Against Domestic Violence AND in the superb series: THE HANDMAID'S TALE
Or Barbie
I haven't seen it yet but hear it's frustrated many a manly man...
His reasoning is obscene. Using that non-logic, a woman's body isn't her own at all and is subject to the whims of the observer.
I realize this is their goal and I am enraged. They deserve the fate in the woods of the Joseph Fiennes character in the televised version of "Handmaid's Tale".
I prefer ‘ they’ to the aforementioned ‘we’.
💙💙VOTE THEM OUT ,FOLKS💙💙
Popcorn? 3-D glasses? or like in the Rocky Horror Picture Show where everyone gets dressed up in surgical garb and masks (oops no masks-they wouldn't wear them any way)
It’s very creepy!
Because it’s all about him.
Just one word needed to describe Judge James Ho and others of like him: Perverts! He, and those like him, must immediately cease & desist, because his warped thinking and actions are causing me an aesthetic injury due to his interfering with my enjoyment of living in a sane and normal world!
If SCOTUS rules in favor of Ho's interpretation the next step would logically be to challenge birth control--because if "aesthetic considerations " of voyeuristic doctors are all that counts, then they cannot be denied ANY potential opportunity for more ultrasounds of fetuses to be provided for their enjoyment. A whole new type of pornography...
"The Handmaid's Tale" is no longer fiction. Perhaps all women in America will need to be placed in pre-natal zoos during their pregnancies for the optimal fetishistic experiences of sickos like Ho.
Good catch. The Handmaid's Tale was, like 1984, inspired by existing threatening patterns in life.
.... All our daughter's required to regularly submit menses records to some appropriately designated gop appointed authority... Dystopian doesn't quite cover it.
I immediately thought of Handmaid's Tale as well. Unbelievable that Ho can write this opinion with a straight face, and no mention of the harm that may come to a mother from having an unwanted child for the enjoyment of her doctor.
The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood : Inspired by US politics surrounding the issue of abortion in the 80's as viewed by this Canadien writer extrapolating about how this movement might play out in the near future . A quick review, via WIKI, I know, but it comes with substantial links, brings those years and the struggles all back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Handmaid%27s_Tale#cite_note-:12-17
Per Margaret Atwood while discussing "Oryx and Crake". "As with The Handmaid's Tale, I didn't put in anything that we haven't already done, we're not already doing, we're seriously trying to do, coupled with trends that are already in progress... So all of those things are real, and therefore the amount of pure invention is close to nil."
IMHO....The court and legislative action today is positively dripping the Atwood's brilliant "Handmaid's Tale", souped up with the anti abortion movement's 40 year stealth takeover of SCOTUS (and state governments) all in direct service to their goal of removing a woman's choice over her own body. Going further, they have moved to the horror of forcing a 13 yer old rape victim to go through 9 long months of a pregnancy, endure the fright (to a 13 yr old) and risk of delivery and a live birth, not to even mention, the complex issues to follow. With this judgement, the uterus is a ward of the state, and punishment remains open to anyone attempting to violate "their aesthetic pleasure".
I admit that I am terribly exercised over this. I hope to revisit reason soon. But definitely, there is no way to question the brilliant prescience of Atwood's tale.
"The Handmaid’s Tale" -- Exactly what popped into my mind also. -- Dystopian fiction has become reality.
I hope these ‘free speech’ drivel dribbles become the first inklings of a criminal act...and so prosecuted ...just sayin’
Here's a Rastafarian perspective:
"Legal murder they call abortion"
https://youtube.com/watch?v=5L45toPpEv0&feature=share9
And here's a song by a famous rock star whose baby (fetus -- so it's not really "his") got aborted:
"Blood is the rose of mysterious union"
https://youtube.com/watch?v=6lnoM25D-js&feature=share9
He sang about the encounter that led to the abortion in this song:
"Now I'm so alone, just looking for a home in ev'ry face I see"
https://youtube.com/watch?v=SaO0b-DvJU8&feature=share9
That seems to have tipped his life course into its slow-motion alcoholic death spiral:
"I promised I would drown myself in mysticated wine"
https://youtube.com/watch?v=8RyC-azVYX8&feature=share9
This is exactly their plan. The ultimate Republican utopia is to have complete control of women's bodies and minds (such as we possess). No doubt many see the "Handmaid's Tale" as a user's guide.
Seems the plot of the Handmaids Tale is the handbook (or one of the handbooks) the Christian Fascists in America seek to implement in the USA. No doubt Ho is one of those CF’s.
“The Handmaid's Tale is a futuristic dystopian novel….set in a near-future New England in a patriarchal, white supremacist, totalitarian theonomic state….which has overthrown the United States government.”
Definition of theonomic:
“Theonomy (from Greek theos "God" and nomos "law") is a hypothetical Christian form of government in which society is ruled by divine law. Theonomists hold that divine law, particularly the judicial laws of the Old Testament, should be observed by modern societies.”
“The precise definition of theonomy is the presumption that the Old Covenant judicial laws given to Israel have not been abrogated, and therefore all civil governments are morally obligated to enforce them (including the specific penalties).”
(Both the above quoted from Wikipedia)
yes and any doc who can claim an "aesthetic injury" by not performing an abortion on a 13 year old who was raped is one sick SOB who needs serious mental help.
My sentiments exactly. Unless you’ve had to see the trauma inflicted on a raise victim, then keep your mouth shut in ruling against medical care that their physician believes that young woman needs.
This is exactly like insurance companies to me. We have insurance companies that have people sitting behind their big mahogany desk making medical decisions whether a person needs a procedure or not, even with multiple doctors agreeing through their examinations and testing that the procedure is necessary for life.
This is exactly the same thing. Here you have a justice comparing the birth of a child, or the pregnancy “process” to a farmer, landowner, homeowner, spraying pesticides to control pest and insects!
A. This justice, to my knowledge isn’t a farmer.
B. I’m guessing he’s a homeowner, so I’d hate to go into his home, especially if he hadn’t ever used any pesticide of any type to control the creepy crawlers, or the flies, etc in his home.
There’s no comparison between the two. None.
What needs to happen is all these legislators, and justices, keep their noses out if the examining room of the physicians. That’s no place for this type of nonsense. Let the doctors do their jobs and leave the decisions of childbirth, pregnancy, and everything else between the doctors and the patients!
Get ‘em Daniel... hear hear! 🙌🫶👏
Thanks, Patricia. This 💩💩💩💩pisses me the hell off every time I read something , or hear about, one of these idiot politicians or justices, or SCOTUS, making a ruling or trying to implement another dumb-ass law like this idiot has done. They have already backed up women’s rights over 130 years, voting rights back to pre-1909, and it sucks! What we have in Congress right now is a joke, and they have split this nation worse than it was during slavery, and just before the Civil War. It’s my fear that they, the Trumpublicans in Washington, and Frumpy, are going to keep going until some of their ‘sheep’ grab their guns and start shooting people willy-nilly. Then the war will be on!
Whewww!! That statement needs to be on billboards across this country.
Resign to write fiction. He's clearly a talent.
Judge Ho should be required to care for that young Mississippi girl’s child 24 hours a day for the next 18 years (i.e. through adolescence). Every 2 a.m. feeding. Every diapering. Cleaning up every spit-up. Cooking every meal. Staying up with every fever. Helping with homework. Being there when the teenager says, “whatever” to everything. All of it. (In real life I would not want to inflict that man on any child. And on few adults.)
...and footing the bill and paying for college education...
And the years of psychiatric treatment of likely PTSD
Judge Ho has enabled me to truly understand the meaning of being flabbergasted!
Why are we not playing up the monetary bump these doctors achieve by delivering an unwanted child vs the pregnant person ending the pregnancy? Of course the doctor would want to deliver! Soooooooo much more money.
Anti abortion gyn professionals surely have no business in that particular specialty. Compelled to cater to the state, as well as their personal belief structure, they are not able to deliver full care to the woman.
By that logic, denying a transplant doctor the opportunity to do transplant surgery by not donating an organ should be outlawed—and it would also save a life! Oh, wait—that would not be an unborn life—never mind.
gobsmacked
🤣🫶