First, assume there is NOW overwhelming proof of election fraud AND Trump would have carried Georgia. SO WHAT! That does not make the fraudulent claims, false affidavits and conspiracies to obstruct government described in the indictment, any less criminal!
First, assume there is NOW overwhelming proof of election fraud AND Trump would have carried Georgia. SO WHAT! That does not make the fraudulent claims, false affidavits and conspiracies to obstruct government described in the indictment, any less criminal!
Second, we all know he has nothing to show.
Third, the further lies in the face of indictments, doubling down on the 'Big Lie', means that the only thing that can sanitize the Trump pestilence from our democracy is a LOOOOOOONG sentence of incarceration for ALL involved. No leniency like at the Civil War and Nixon such that these cancers are never excised.
Ultimately I think that our society is routinely excessively punitive against the "little people" an too ready to excuse the powerful, which is fundamentally corrupt. I think the more the corrupted "GOP" has managed to get away with, the worse they have become.
JL, you are absolutely correct. It is the regular American population who receives less respect and more time for an offense of law.....if the one charged was even actually guility!!!
Money and position often speak louder than "Lady Justice".
What of the promotion of fear Trump's minions enjoy spreading to control their "rule"?
Of all the humans who exist in the USA, Trump is the most guilty....but how he loves using others to aid in his life of crime. Look at the men and women he has used and is using....the ones who enjoyed accepting the money, the power, the attention, the gifts, the parties, etc. for a little power......empty power, "empty " because it will not last...it is false, it is fake.....a mirage.....those willing to "throw our country under the bus" for personal gain. Under Trump, free countries, lost their trust in us. Our financial status has fallen in the world. Our Republican Party has lost its ability to govern. It is about taking away from its citizenry and feeding itself. Women are so disrespected! It is full of loud voices with big guns and no substance. Really it is heart breaking.
THERE MUST BE ACCOUNTABILITY for their lack of leadership!!!! The people of this country deserve better!
'...those willing to "throw our country under the bus" for personal gain."
Sociopathy. "The root of all evil". Metaphorically selling one's soul to the devil for power. It's a persistent trait of human nature which, if left unmoderated, could kill us all.
The working poor already know our justice system is eroded to the point of not serving justice anymore, but feeds the excessive number of members of the lawyer class. And don't forget contracts for private prisons that require "the beds" be 95 percent full. How can the system be fair with that requirement up front? The professional and lawyer class sees this s__t show differently than the majority of Americans who know how easily a criminal case can be made against anybody by the powers that be. I'm reluctantly planning to vote for Biden, so far, (I would rather vote for West), and I believe Trump is an example of a wealthy person who succeeded by criminal means, but I am trying to remind the lawyer class how the majority of the people view the justice system.
But, although this should not be characterized as "good news" juveniles incarcerated at Angola "prison" (a former LA Plantation of the same name) have been moved out this last week after undergoing horrible prison conditions there including solitary confinement, no outdoor time, beatings, etc.
Angola prison still serves Louisiana as a source for slaves since it remains LEGAL in the USA to use "convicted" prisoners on the gigantic 16,000 acre "prison farm" which is a former Plantation which was also named Angola.
So, yes, the "justice" system long ago failed Americans......on the day that the 14th amendment passed, that amendment encoded slavery for "convicted felons".
All the southern states immediately converted their plantations to prisons and kept moving. But, I think NY has some smell of it too.
Mike, yes, it’s appalling that this continues for 150 years after “Emancipation.” It proves that the corporate oligarchy successfully maintains its power over American policy. And now that same oligarchy wants to abolish child labor laws! And wants work requirements for any government assistance. Wait until they raise the age for Social Security so the elderly must work to survive. And let’s not forget their attacks on Obamacare. People who must work to survive and to obtain healthcare are also slaves to the oligarchy.
US corporations use prison labor to assemble major appliances from Chinese parts with US corporation names on them. But what I didn't say very well is that Trump understands that working class voters believe the justice system is easily manipulated as well as local elections. He uses that knowledge to get followers because he knows it's not a big leap to believe the system would do that to him because they believe he advocates for them. That is Trump's criminal genius.
JL, if you get away with pushing the envelope, you will keep pushing harder, until the envelop tears. We are torn and need a lot of glue to put our nation back together.
We are torn, and that can go one of two ways; but I think establishing rule of law, which is overdue, but welcome is part of repair, and after four decades of "Reaganomic" celebration of selfishness we all must be focusing harder on how to make all of it work more justly for everyone, salient leaders of many sorts and grass roots. I see that happening now, but there is much resistance to overcome.
"LOOOOOOONG sentence of incarceration for ALL involved"
100Panthers.
America was founded on white supremacy, where white men could pretty much do what they wanted. Indeed, the Virginia colony was the first colony to pass a law making it LEGAL for a white man to rape a black woman thereby making rape profitable during slavery. Indeed, the book "By Hands Now Known" outlines one after another after another murder (of a black man or woaman) by white men that was supported by American Society at the time.
Now, in a country like that, do you really, honestly, think a long time criminal, created by NY City mafia lawyer Roy Cohn, -> Donald Trump, is ever going to jail? I mean Trump has been a hardened mafia like criminal in America (mostly in NY City) all of his adult life and has never even been charged with any crime until now. OK, not counting his arrest for beating his wife in the early 1990's after she made fun of his new fake hairdo one day in NY City. He was later released.
Fani Willis is certainly doing her best, but, she is pushing against a mighty wall of power, money and history. Very, very ugly history at that.
That said, I hope Fani Willis is successful. I also hope she has very, very good security around her 24/7 because Trump is dog whistling to his nutty followers.
Mike, Federal guidelines come out to lengthy incarceration. Georgia RICO has a 5 year Minimum Mandatory. Trump all of sudden will have doctors saying he is dying, fragile (as opposed to the letter he got from his doctor saying he is the most fit Presidential candidate ever, remember that?) begging to avoid incarceration. But I anticipate that, if given the opportunity after conviction because a judge does not remand him, I think there is a decent chance he jumps bond and goes to the Middle East or Russia, awaiting a GOP pardon to come home if a federal conviction.
Here is an example of what the "other side" is saying about Trump's latest indictment in Georgia:
"ANALYSIS: Georgia Trump Indictment Struggles to Back Criminal Intention Claims"
"The indictment of former President Donald Trump in Georgia over his efforts to reverse the results of the 2020 election lacks evidence that he harbored the criminal intent necessary to be convicted....
"Ms. Willis alleged that 41 crimes were committed by various persons in this effort. Of those alleged crimes, 11 list President Trump as the defendant, and most of those require various forms of criminal state of mind—the perpetrator needs to be aware that he’s doing something unlawful.
"Despite its nearly 100 pages, the indictment fails to explain how Ms. Willis knows that President Trump acted with criminal intent, rather than executing a strategy that he believed was lawful...."
As usual, you emit a bigoted sneer without any assessment of the actual argument. This is an American legal case, and the case against Trump isn't airtight.
Perhaps, aside from thuggish opinion groomers like Mike S, there are people around here with an interest in thinking through both sides of the Trump court cases.
This are times when there is one clear right side. This is one of them. There are well meaning otherwise good people still trying to understand the other side of this argument. They haven’t yet realized the other side is fascist. I tell my family this: they can stop looking for any good from the other side. There is none there. The Republican Party is decayed and collapsing. It is clear to me it embraced all the wrong stuff, the underlying values of white supremacy and big moneyed interests and disregard for our environment. But both sides--all of us--have plundered the planet. The scary thing is Mother Nature who has been wronged (an understatement) will have the last word.
"Actual news mixed with propaganda" is a good description of HCR's letters. One learns to sort through and think for oneself. I like HCR's frequent focus on history.
I hope you don't disagree with the general point that, in order to get a conviction, the prosecutors in both the Georgia case and the Jan. 6 case will have to convince a jury that Trump didn't have good reason to believe that the election was stolen.
This point is highlighted in that piece by the Epoch Times, and people with little knowledge of the law would do well to remember it.
Once again, my general principle is: KNOW WHAT THE OTHER SIDE HAS TO SAY. If you can point out errors in that linked Epoch Times analysis of the Georgia case, then we all will be better prepared to think through the upcoming parade of claims and counter-claims.
John you should take a clear look at the Fulton County 161 alleged "criminal organization" overt acts. About 40 of those are criminal acts standing separately from the alleged criminal "enterprise". Pay close attention to the allegations of FALSE statements & writings. There are many.
I bet, John, you just can’t wait for the “Large, Complex, Detailed but Irrefutable REPORT on the Presidential Election Fraud which took place in Georgia. [And] Based on the results of this CONCLUSIVE Report, all charges should be dropped against me & others—There will be a complete EXONERATION!” Next Monday should be one heck of a Great Day, huh, John? I hope EVERY media outlet covers this “Large, Complex, Detailed but Irrefutable REPORT.”
I do look forward to assessing whether that report contains more than smoke and mirrors. Beyond that, you might have a response yo my reply to Rickey Woody:
The Epoch Times is run by members of Falun Gong, a Chinese spiritual movement that became popular and was then brutally repressed by the Chinese government. They have a strong interest in medical issues, and their approach is informed by their embrace of traditional Chinese medicine together with western medicine.
The Epoch Times has a noticeable undercurrent of bias against the Chinese government.
From Wikipedia: Falun Gong practitioners founded a variety of outreach organizations in the United States and elsewhere, including the dance troupe Shen Yun. They are known for opposing the CCP and for anti-evolutionary views. They also operate Epoch Media Group, which is known for its subsidiaries, New Tang Dynasty Television and The Epoch Times newspaper. The latter has been broadly noted as a politically far-right[35] media entity, and it has received significant attention in the United States for promoting conspiracy theories, such as QAnon and anti-vaccine misinformation, and producing advertisements for former U.S. President Donald Trump. It has also drawn attention in Europe for promoting far-right politicians, primarily in France and Germany.
Thank you, Paul in Palatine, for providing this answer. I was on the verge of looking it up again. It definitely bears repeating that all of us should “know our sources,” who owns and is supplying the information. Just because the Epoch Media Group oppose the CCP, doesn’t make them reliable allies in the fight for the truth behind powers that are pushing the destruction of our democracy.
First, assume there is NOW overwhelming proof of election fraud AND Trump would have carried Georgia. SO WHAT! That does not make the fraudulent claims, false affidavits and conspiracies to obstruct government described in the indictment, any less criminal!
Second, we all know he has nothing to show.
Third, the further lies in the face of indictments, doubling down on the 'Big Lie', means that the only thing that can sanitize the Trump pestilence from our democracy is a LOOOOOOONG sentence of incarceration for ALL involved. No leniency like at the Civil War and Nixon such that these cancers are never excised.
Ultimately I think that our society is routinely excessively punitive against the "little people" an too ready to excuse the powerful, which is fundamentally corrupt. I think the more the corrupted "GOP" has managed to get away with, the worse they have become.
JL, that’s the way of bullies and mobsters—the more you give in, the worse the crimes.
And toddlers, too.
JL, you are absolutely correct. It is the regular American population who receives less respect and more time for an offense of law.....if the one charged was even actually guility!!!
Money and position often speak louder than "Lady Justice".
What of the promotion of fear Trump's minions enjoy spreading to control their "rule"?
Of all the humans who exist in the USA, Trump is the most guilty....but how he loves using others to aid in his life of crime. Look at the men and women he has used and is using....the ones who enjoyed accepting the money, the power, the attention, the gifts, the parties, etc. for a little power......empty power, "empty " because it will not last...it is false, it is fake.....a mirage.....those willing to "throw our country under the bus" for personal gain. Under Trump, free countries, lost their trust in us. Our financial status has fallen in the world. Our Republican Party has lost its ability to govern. It is about taking away from its citizenry and feeding itself. Women are so disrespected! It is full of loud voices with big guns and no substance. Really it is heart breaking.
THERE MUST BE ACCOUNTABILITY for their lack of leadership!!!! The people of this country deserve better!
'...those willing to "throw our country under the bus" for personal gain."
Sociopathy. "The root of all evil". Metaphorically selling one's soul to the devil for power. It's a persistent trait of human nature which, if left unmoderated, could kill us all.
The working poor already know our justice system is eroded to the point of not serving justice anymore, but feeds the excessive number of members of the lawyer class. And don't forget contracts for private prisons that require "the beds" be 95 percent full. How can the system be fair with that requirement up front? The professional and lawyer class sees this s__t show differently than the majority of Americans who know how easily a criminal case can be made against anybody by the powers that be. I'm reluctantly planning to vote for Biden, so far, (I would rather vote for West), and I believe Trump is an example of a wealthy person who succeeded by criminal means, but I am trying to remind the lawyer class how the majority of the people view the justice system.
Yes,
But, although this should not be characterized as "good news" juveniles incarcerated at Angola "prison" (a former LA Plantation of the same name) have been moved out this last week after undergoing horrible prison conditions there including solitary confinement, no outdoor time, beatings, etc.
Angola prison still serves Louisiana as a source for slaves since it remains LEGAL in the USA to use "convicted" prisoners on the gigantic 16,000 acre "prison farm" which is a former Plantation which was also named Angola.
So, yes, the "justice" system long ago failed Americans......on the day that the 14th amendment passed, that amendment encoded slavery for "convicted felons".
All the southern states immediately converted their plantations to prisons and kept moving. But, I think NY has some smell of it too.
Mike, yes, it’s appalling that this continues for 150 years after “Emancipation.” It proves that the corporate oligarchy successfully maintains its power over American policy. And now that same oligarchy wants to abolish child labor laws! And wants work requirements for any government assistance. Wait until they raise the age for Social Security so the elderly must work to survive. And let’s not forget their attacks on Obamacare. People who must work to survive and to obtain healthcare are also slaves to the oligarchy.
US corporations use prison labor to assemble major appliances from Chinese parts with US corporation names on them. But what I didn't say very well is that Trump understands that working class voters believe the justice system is easily manipulated as well as local elections. He uses that knowledge to get followers because he knows it's not a big leap to believe the system would do that to him because they believe he advocates for them. That is Trump's criminal genius.
JL, if you get away with pushing the envelope, you will keep pushing harder, until the envelop tears. We are torn and need a lot of glue to put our nation back together.
We are torn, and that can go one of two ways; but I think establishing rule of law, which is overdue, but welcome is part of repair, and after four decades of "Reaganomic" celebration of selfishness we all must be focusing harder on how to make all of it work more justly for everyone, salient leaders of many sorts and grass roots. I see that happening now, but there is much resistance to overcome.
"LOOOOOOONG sentence of incarceration for ALL involved"
100Panthers.
America was founded on white supremacy, where white men could pretty much do what they wanted. Indeed, the Virginia colony was the first colony to pass a law making it LEGAL for a white man to rape a black woman thereby making rape profitable during slavery. Indeed, the book "By Hands Now Known" outlines one after another after another murder (of a black man or woaman) by white men that was supported by American Society at the time.
Now, in a country like that, do you really, honestly, think a long time criminal, created by NY City mafia lawyer Roy Cohn, -> Donald Trump, is ever going to jail? I mean Trump has been a hardened mafia like criminal in America (mostly in NY City) all of his adult life and has never even been charged with any crime until now. OK, not counting his arrest for beating his wife in the early 1990's after she made fun of his new fake hairdo one day in NY City. He was later released.
Fani Willis is certainly doing her best, but, she is pushing against a mighty wall of power, money and history. Very, very ugly history at that.
That said, I hope Fani Willis is successful. I also hope she has very, very good security around her 24/7 because Trump is dog whistling to his nutty followers.
Mike, Federal guidelines come out to lengthy incarceration. Georgia RICO has a 5 year Minimum Mandatory. Trump all of sudden will have doctors saying he is dying, fragile (as opposed to the letter he got from his doctor saying he is the most fit Presidential candidate ever, remember that?) begging to avoid incarceration. But I anticipate that, if given the opportunity after conviction because a judge does not remand him, I think there is a decent chance he jumps bond and goes to the Middle East or Russia, awaiting a GOP pardon to come home if a federal conviction.
At a New Hampshire rally Trump was saying how he is sick of the USA and could see himself living in France. 'Bond jumping on my mind...?'
HOPE and support
Here is an example of what the "other side" is saying about Trump's latest indictment in Georgia:
"ANALYSIS: Georgia Trump Indictment Struggles to Back Criminal Intention Claims"
"The indictment of former President Donald Trump in Georgia over his efforts to reverse the results of the 2020 election lacks evidence that he harbored the criminal intent necessary to be convicted....
"Ms. Willis alleged that 41 crimes were committed by various persons in this effort. Of those alleged crimes, 11 list President Trump as the defendant, and most of those require various forms of criminal state of mind—the perpetrator needs to be aware that he’s doing something unlawful.
"Despite its nearly 100 pages, the indictment fails to explain how Ms. Willis knows that President Trump acted with criminal intent, rather than executing a strategy that he believed was lawful...."
https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/analysis-georgia-trump-indictment-struggles-to-back-criminal-intention-claims-5467749
Did they copy that from Pravda John?
We have our own home grown traitors
Mike S,
What a thing to say.
As usual, you emit a bigoted sneer without any assessment of the actual argument. This is an American legal case, and the case against Trump isn't airtight.
Perhaps, aside from thuggish opinion groomers like Mike S, there are people around here with an interest in thinking through both sides of the Trump court cases.
This are times when there is one clear right side. This is one of them. There are well meaning otherwise good people still trying to understand the other side of this argument. They haven’t yet realized the other side is fascist. I tell my family this: they can stop looking for any good from the other side. There is none there. The Republican Party is decayed and collapsing. It is clear to me it embraced all the wrong stuff, the underlying values of white supremacy and big moneyed interests and disregard for our environment. But both sides--all of us--have plundered the planet. The scary thing is Mother Nature who has been wronged (an understatement) will have the last word.
Messages from Earth:
http://earthwarning.org/index.php/blog/
"Know thy enemy"
That piece of trash (Epoch Times) masquerades as a newspaper. Got a couple of copies is my mail box one time. Actual news mixed in with propaganda.
"Actual news mixed with propaganda" is a good description of HCR's letters. One learns to sort through and think for oneself. I like HCR's frequent focus on history.
I hope you don't disagree with the general point that, in order to get a conviction, the prosecutors in both the Georgia case and the Jan. 6 case will have to convince a jury that Trump didn't have good reason to believe that the election was stolen.
This point is highlighted in that piece by the Epoch Times, and people with little knowledge of the law would do well to remember it.
Once again, my general principle is: KNOW WHAT THE OTHER SIDE HAS TO SAY. If you can point out errors in that linked Epoch Times analysis of the Georgia case, then we all will be better prepared to think through the upcoming parade of claims and counter-claims.
John you should take a clear look at the Fulton County 161 alleged "criminal organization" overt acts. About 40 of those are criminal acts standing separately from the alleged criminal "enterprise". Pay close attention to the allegations of FALSE statements & writings. There are many.
Thank you. If I'm not mistaken, these charges are against others, not Trump. But I don't mind standing corrected.
I bet, John, you just can’t wait for the “Large, Complex, Detailed but Irrefutable REPORT on the Presidential Election Fraud which took place in Georgia. [And] Based on the results of this CONCLUSIVE Report, all charges should be dropped against me & others—There will be a complete EXONERATION!” Next Monday should be one heck of a Great Day, huh, John? I hope EVERY media outlet covers this “Large, Complex, Detailed but Irrefutable REPORT.”
Paul in Palatine,
I do look forward to assessing whether that report contains more than smoke and mirrors. Beyond that, you might have a response yo my reply to Rickey Woody:
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/august-15-2023/comment/22925428
WOW - now you are fishing for responses from me? Whew!!
Actually, I was making a point of giving a civil response to your rudeness.
Awwwww…. Poor Gollum…. Protecting his Precious!!
Epoch Times is funded by Moonies.
Chinese Government.
Ted, you might want to double-check that.
The Epoch Times is run by members of Falun Gong, a Chinese spiritual movement that became popular and was then brutally repressed by the Chinese government. They have a strong interest in medical issues, and their approach is informed by their embrace of traditional Chinese medicine together with western medicine.
The Epoch Times has a noticeable undercurrent of bias against the Chinese government.
From Wikipedia: Falun Gong practitioners founded a variety of outreach organizations in the United States and elsewhere, including the dance troupe Shen Yun. They are known for opposing the CCP and for anti-evolutionary views. They also operate Epoch Media Group, which is known for its subsidiaries, New Tang Dynasty Television and The Epoch Times newspaper. The latter has been broadly noted as a politically far-right[35] media entity, and it has received significant attention in the United States for promoting conspiracy theories, such as QAnon and anti-vaccine misinformation, and producing advertisements for former U.S. President Donald Trump. It has also drawn attention in Europe for promoting far-right politicians, primarily in France and Germany.
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/august-15-2023/comment/31737248
Thank you, Paul in Palatine, for providing this answer. I was on the verge of looking it up again. It definitely bears repeating that all of us should “know our sources,” who owns and is supplying the information. Just because the Epoch Media Group oppose the CCP, doesn’t make them reliable allies in the fight for the truth behind powers that are pushing the destruction of our democracy.
The Epoch Times should only be used as toilet paper when real toilet paper can not be accessed.
Seeing that they are only online, that's kind of hard to do, unless you shove your cell phone up your butt.
Perhaps you will have something to say about my reply to Rickey Woody:
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/august-15-2023/comment/22925428
That rag is slick and hoovering-up our neighbors.
Fake news indeed.
My reply here might be worth checking:
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/august-15-2023/comment/31737248