Let's step back and consider what may have been happening behind the scenes. The Justice Department has known for some time that Trump has classified documents and learned that they included nuclear secrets. So sensitive that they're classified as more secret than top secret. And why paper versions, which meant they had to be printed ou…
Let's step back and consider what may have been happening behind the scenes. The Justice Department has known for some time that Trump has classified documents and learned that they included nuclear secrets. So sensitive that they're classified as more secret than top secret. And why paper versions, which meant they had to be printed out?
All this must have set off blaring alarms across national intelligence agencies, which the Justice Department no doubt notified. What has the CIA been doing, and what has it learned? And what about the other agencies? Has Trump literally sold out the country? Has he revealed secrets that endangered us or perhaps brave spies working on our behalf? Or has he sold information that agencies had collected about other countries, including our adversaries? Or all of the above?
It's all mind-blowing. It more than hard to fathom. It appears nearly certain that the former president has committed serious felonies involving some of the nation's most secret intelligence information. But we also have to begin pondering whether Trump committed espionage.
'Let's step back...' Michael! What is the distance from which we have stepped back, thereby, permitting Trump to get away with not paying his taxes as warranted, destroying the county's governmental agencies, weaponizing the DOJ...taking government documents to Mar-a-Largo? This country's lack of guardrails and enforcement is as shocking as Trump and those in the business of attempting to overthrow our tottering government. Ah, but the two go together like a horse and carriage. Would Trump and his ilk have gotten where they are if our economic system and the Rule of Law didn't bend their arcs in favor of Wall Street and Big Business as well as the ultrarich and propertied class?
To Michael's point and Fern's folo: John Brennan, former CIA director, said on MSNBC last night that the reason they were paper documents is that the ultra secret, as in beyond "top" were never on any kind of server. Only paper. The ultra secret classification, if this is indeed what they were Brennan said, meant that even he, as the CIA director would never have seen them.
There were guardrails, maybe not enough, in part because this was a crime beyond imagining.
As stated the guardrails are clearly not adequate, and isn't it the role of protecting government secrets to imagine treasonous actors within and outside of government?
Agree, the guardrails are not adequate. Were never accurate. Who makes the rules when a crook can be elected. All the way down the line, there have been signs that we could be in danger. How many people have access to all the docs in the Whitehouse, esp when there aren't locks on the doors? We need policies and protection as if every leader has the potential to be compromised, even an honest leader.
Irenie, Given, DJT's obvious 'disloyalty' to the country, his destructive and unstable behavior the string of negatives is how long, so how could he have been permitted to leave the WH with cartons of government documents? He corrupted everything and everyone he could. He was not being monitored. DJT is a known quantity, and he revealed the sort of known quantity our country had become.
Fern, TFG’s disloyalty is a known and so ironic when he fired smart and highly qualified people who were loyal to our country. The monitors. But would not swear loyalty to him.
isn't it odd that there's a whole big process to gain 'security' clearance.. yet the prez (maybe also the veep?) are exempt???? why is that??? and shouldn't that be changed???
Why would any one person, especially a person with zero technical knowledge, be able to get their hands on these documents? Shouldn't they be in a secured room with video surveillance?
From the beginning my primary concern with Trump was he was going to monetize the presidency and that the easiest and obvious way to do that is selling or trading national security secrets. My fear that Trump was a threat to national security was soon vindicated when he had his first "private" meeting with Putin.
Trump's Achilles heel is his personal and business tax returns. The lengths he went to to prevent their release was a huge tell. Trump is a charlatan who operates on top of a house of cards. He's a four-time loser who no bank in this country would touch. Any success he has had is fleeting and usually at the expense of others. Maybe not today, but leading up to 2016, he survived at the mercy of Putin and Russian oligarchs. He ran for president to bail himself out of more financial difficulties. His desperation to be president is because it's his ticket to fame and fortune. But, you all know this.
There is no way Trump should have been allowed to serve as president until all his tax records and business dealings were fully vetted. The lack of guardrails and enforcement with regard to vetting a president is astounding.
Fern, for my money this comment was one of your bests because it goes straight to the heart of the matter - this is what is wrong with the government, the economy and the country as a whole! Brilliant comment!! Thanks
And a good morning to you from here in beautiful, sunny and cool Cuenca Ecuador. I love YT music videos and will add this to my library. Stevie Wonder is truly a wonder! There is a part of me that would like to know what made you think to send me this video.
When I think of you, I always imagine you as a person surrounded by a voluminous library filled with facts and information, all carefully organized, catalogued and researchable. Of course, nowadays these libraries are easily created on a computer. You are both a resource and resourceful and I respect your faithfulness to referencing yours and other's comments.
On the other hand, I'm quite the opposite. I'm ADHD and woefully undisciplined. I too often spout off with emotion and passion. My comments often sound like someone hopped up on coffee while your comments are a model of composure and sensibility.
Fortunately, there are seats for both of us at the same table and I'm glad we have the opportunity to share a meal from time to time.
Have a wonderful Saturday in New York City. (And just like that my mind jumps to a flashback - Audrey Hepburn in Breakfast at Tiffany's LOL)
Vivian, We came together here on the forum. We bonded and fully expressed what we have been thinking and feeling as Americans. On his special day, the list of files taken from former President's home included materials marked as top secret, meant to be seen only in government facilities. The monumental Inflation Reduction Act will be signed soon, and inflation has been slowly going down. Thank you for being among us, Vivian. It has been a good day. We will work hard to make more good days. Salud!
Oh, Suz, I just wrote what we all know. You point out, however, that for some reason we do not say this one most terrible truth we are living. Is it that we cannot reckon with how seriously our country and the people have been diminished by an immoral and indecent, sociopath?
Thank you, Fern. I was actually referring to your last sentence:
"Would Trump and his ilk have gotten where they are if our economic system and the Rule of Law didn't bend their arcs in favor of Wall Street and Big Business as well as the ultrarich and propertied class?" <-- THIS is to me the bigger issue, the one most terrible truth we are living. THIS is what allows the sociopath et al to diminish us and all we cherish.
He couldn't be bothered to even read daily security briefings, he just loves to lord it over people, like on his "reality" show. He's a wealth dabbler; Miss America, wine, steaks, the airline, the "university", military commander, even truck driver:
Because Israel has been courted by Republicans specifically for many years.
IF it is true that Saudi Arabia—an Arab country—is trying to get nuclear information from Trump, that would be a reversal of American policy of the last five decades (to support Israel).
It would also compound the trouble Trump caused when he reportedly threw an Israeli spy under the bus in 2017. I don’t recall hearing whether that spy was extracted alive or whether he was killed.
The U.S. might start to look like not a very reliable ally.
Israel doesn't need them. It already has the bomb. This all so bizarre. Also you cannot erect enough guardrails for the likes of Trump. There already are many....he just ignores them.
He was not alone in his actions. Republicans wanted total power. Not sure they realized their idiot, so-called "businessman" would sell his soul and our top secret nuclear information to the highest bidder.They just wanted full control of our country. They installed a madman like hitler. This lies at their feet and rupert's, who is fully anti-American and should be arrested and defrocked of his citizenship which he has un-earned a thousandfold. They all should be.
The credentials and specializations of Attorney Gonzalez and Jay Bratt show a big dot connection to follow the money! Let's hope the net catches all the bad players.
"The DOJ motion to unseal the search warrant tells us a bit more. It was signed by U.S. Attorney Juan Gonzalez and by Jay Bratt, the chief of the department’s counterintelligence section."
If the dreaded ‘deep state’ exists, trump copied it to work for him! Agreed! Where were the safeguards?
I see a pattern here culminating on Jan 6, where NO person of highest authority in our security apparatus was willing to defy t3ump and properly secure the Capitol building and the lives of the Capitol,police!
Because its all so mind blowing, I have to admit, it makes me wonder about the timing of Ivana’s death and IF she’s really in the grave at the golf course. And if so, what’s in the casket with her?
Let's step back and consider what may have been happening behind the scenes. The Justice Department has known for some time that Trump has classified documents and learned that they included nuclear secrets. So sensitive that they're classified as more secret than top secret. And why paper versions, which meant they had to be printed out?
All this must have set off blaring alarms across national intelligence agencies, which the Justice Department no doubt notified. What has the CIA been doing, and what has it learned? And what about the other agencies? Has Trump literally sold out the country? Has he revealed secrets that endangered us or perhaps brave spies working on our behalf? Or has he sold information that agencies had collected about other countries, including our adversaries? Or all of the above?
It's all mind-blowing. It more than hard to fathom. It appears nearly certain that the former president has committed serious felonies involving some of the nation's most secret intelligence information. But we also have to begin pondering whether Trump committed espionage.
'Let's step back...' Michael! What is the distance from which we have stepped back, thereby, permitting Trump to get away with not paying his taxes as warranted, destroying the county's governmental agencies, weaponizing the DOJ...taking government documents to Mar-a-Largo? This country's lack of guardrails and enforcement is as shocking as Trump and those in the business of attempting to overthrow our tottering government. Ah, but the two go together like a horse and carriage. Would Trump and his ilk have gotten where they are if our economic system and the Rule of Law didn't bend their arcs in favor of Wall Street and Big Business as well as the ultrarich and propertied class?
To Michael's point and Fern's folo: John Brennan, former CIA director, said on MSNBC last night that the reason they were paper documents is that the ultra secret, as in beyond "top" were never on any kind of server. Only paper. The ultra secret classification, if this is indeed what they were Brennan said, meant that even he, as the CIA director would never have seen them.
There were guardrails, maybe not enough, in part because this was a crime beyond imagining.
As stated the guardrails are clearly not adequate, and isn't it the role of protecting government secrets to imagine treasonous actors within and outside of government?
Agree, the guardrails are not adequate. Were never accurate. Who makes the rules when a crook can be elected. All the way down the line, there have been signs that we could be in danger. How many people have access to all the docs in the Whitehouse, esp when there aren't locks on the doors? We need policies and protection as if every leader has the potential to be compromised, even an honest leader.
Irenie, Given, DJT's obvious 'disloyalty' to the country, his destructive and unstable behavior the string of negatives is how long, so how could he have been permitted to leave the WH with cartons of government documents? He corrupted everything and everyone he could. He was not being monitored. DJT is a known quantity, and he revealed the sort of known quantity our country had become.
Fern, TFG’s disloyalty is a known and so ironic when he fired smart and highly qualified people who were loyal to our country. The monitors. But would not swear loyalty to him.
A crime that only a handful of people were in a position to commit!
isn't it odd that there's a whole big process to gain 'security' clearance.. yet the prez (maybe also the veep?) are exempt???? why is that??? and shouldn't that be changed???
Good point.
Why would any one person, especially a person with zero technical knowledge, be able to get their hands on these documents? Shouldn't they be in a secured room with video surveillance?
From the beginning my primary concern with Trump was he was going to monetize the presidency and that the easiest and obvious way to do that is selling or trading national security secrets. My fear that Trump was a threat to national security was soon vindicated when he had his first "private" meeting with Putin.
Trump's Achilles heel is his personal and business tax returns. The lengths he went to to prevent their release was a huge tell. Trump is a charlatan who operates on top of a house of cards. He's a four-time loser who no bank in this country would touch. Any success he has had is fleeting and usually at the expense of others. Maybe not today, but leading up to 2016, he survived at the mercy of Putin and Russian oligarchs. He ran for president to bail himself out of more financial difficulties. His desperation to be president is because it's his ticket to fame and fortune. But, you all know this.
There is no way Trump should have been allowed to serve as president until all his tax records and business dealings were fully vetted. The lack of guardrails and enforcement with regard to vetting a president is astounding.
Fern, for my money this comment was one of your bests because it goes straight to the heart of the matter - this is what is wrong with the government, the economy and the country as a whole! Brilliant comment!! Thanks
It's still morning here in NYC, Chips.
For you from Stevie and Fern:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YLDydokJ_s
And a good morning to you from here in beautiful, sunny and cool Cuenca Ecuador. I love YT music videos and will add this to my library. Stevie Wonder is truly a wonder! There is a part of me that would like to know what made you think to send me this video.
When I think of you, I always imagine you as a person surrounded by a voluminous library filled with facts and information, all carefully organized, catalogued and researchable. Of course, nowadays these libraries are easily created on a computer. You are both a resource and resourceful and I respect your faithfulness to referencing yours and other's comments.
On the other hand, I'm quite the opposite. I'm ADHD and woefully undisciplined. I too often spout off with emotion and passion. My comments often sound like someone hopped up on coffee while your comments are a model of composure and sensibility.
Fortunately, there are seats for both of us at the same table and I'm glad we have the opportunity to share a meal from time to time.
Have a wonderful Saturday in New York City. (And just like that my mind jumps to a flashback - Audrey Hepburn in Breakfast at Tiffany's LOL)
Thanks to each of you...amazing thread
Vivian, We came together here on the forum. We bonded and fully expressed what we have been thinking and feeling as Americans. On his special day, the list of files taken from former President's home included materials marked as top secret, meant to be seen only in government facilities. The monumental Inflation Reduction Act will be signed soon, and inflation has been slowly going down. Thank you for being among us, Vivian. It has been a good day. We will work hard to make more good days. Salud!
Salud Fern…y mil gracias. It’s a privilege to be here on this special day with more to come for sure.
Hi Chips, Thank you,
BIG Standing O... and Wild Applause for you, Fern!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for pointing out the most obvious-yet-ignored factor in America today.
Oh, Suz, I just wrote what we all know. You point out, however, that for some reason we do not say this one most terrible truth we are living. Is it that we cannot reckon with how seriously our country and the people have been diminished by an immoral and indecent, sociopath?
Thank you, Fern. I was actually referring to your last sentence:
"Would Trump and his ilk have gotten where they are if our economic system and the Rule of Law didn't bend their arcs in favor of Wall Street and Big Business as well as the ultrarich and propertied class?" <-- THIS is to me the bigger issue, the one most terrible truth we are living. THIS is what allows the sociopath et al to diminish us and all we cherish.
Well, he certainly never practised presidency.
nope ... wasn't on his agenda
He couldn't be bothered to even read daily security briefings, he just loves to lord it over people, like on his "reality" show. He's a wealth dabbler; Miss America, wine, steaks, the airline, the "university", military commander, even truck driver:
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/davidmack/vroom-vroom
Robert Reich claimed that Trump would have been richer had he parked his inheritance in an index fund; but that would have not been so much fun.
I think Warren Buffett was the first to point that out. But where would he put his name?
The power addicts, especially in a vacuum of humanity.
If true, it’s clearly treason.
I wonder what Israel is thinking right now?
"If true, it’s clearly treason.
I wonder what Israel is thinking right now?"
I wonder why you are thinking of Israel right now?
Because Israel has been courted by Republicans specifically for many years.
IF it is true that Saudi Arabia—an Arab country—is trying to get nuclear information from Trump, that would be a reversal of American policy of the last five decades (to support Israel).
It would also compound the trouble Trump caused when he reportedly threw an Israeli spy under the bus in 2017. I don’t recall hearing whether that spy was extracted alive or whether he was killed.
The U.S. might start to look like not a very reliable ally.
Israel doesn't need them. It already has the bomb. This all so bizarre. Also you cannot erect enough guardrails for the likes of Trump. There already are many....he just ignores them.
He was not alone in his actions. Republicans wanted total power. Not sure they realized their idiot, so-called "businessman" would sell his soul and our top secret nuclear information to the highest bidder.They just wanted full control of our country. They installed a madman like hitler. This lies at their feet and rupert's, who is fully anti-American and should be arrested and defrocked of his citizenship which he has un-earned a thousandfold. They all should be.
Murdoch literally bought his citizenship legally by promising to invest in the US.
Great point Cindy. If this goes down as we're thinking, this would be a huge betrayal to Israel.
All of the above, we gave the keys to the kingdom to the devil’s disciple
The credentials and specializations of Attorney Gonzalez and Jay Bratt show a big dot connection to follow the money! Let's hope the net catches all the bad players.
"The DOJ motion to unseal the search warrant tells us a bit more. It was signed by U.S. Attorney Juan Gonzalez and by Jay Bratt, the chief of the department’s counterintelligence section."
If the dreaded ‘deep state’ exists, trump copied it to work for him! Agreed! Where were the safeguards?
I see a pattern here culminating on Jan 6, where NO person of highest authority in our security apparatus was willing to defy t3ump and properly secure the Capitol building and the lives of the Capitol,police!
Trump would not have held for one day information he could monetize.
Because its all so mind blowing, I have to admit, it makes me wonder about the timing of Ivana’s death and IF she’s really in the grave at the golf course. And if so, what’s in the casket with her?
Begin?