I continue to have a problem with the identification "Christian". I recognize that Puritans called themselves Christians eventhough they persecuted their own members who lived more independently and Oakers with a different view of Christianity. Even to the point of killing them. I recognize that Confederates called themselves Christians …
I continue to have a problem with the identification "Christian". I recognize that Puritans called themselves Christians eventhough they persecuted their own members who lived more independently and Oakers with a different view of Christianity. Even to the point of killing them. I recognize that Confederates called themselves Christians eventhough they promoted slavery and killed slaves, abolitionists and Union soldiers to preserve slavery and their oligarchy. During Jim Crow, they burned crosses and killed those who threatened their oppressive rule. And then today Abbott, Desantis and many Republicans call themselves Christians while they do many unchristian things to other people. When are real Christians going to take the Christian identification away from these Philistines? Real Christians are people of mercy and a blessing for all.
@David Souers, I grew up Catholic. I recall only one story where Jesus resorted to violence. When he saw the money changers and vendors selling doves in the temple of Jerusalem, he overturned their tables and said, "my house will be a house of prayer and you have made it a den of thieves. Make not my Father's house a house of merchandise." If Christians want to be Christlike, THIS is the time to start overturning tables. That is the necessary path back to mercy and blessings for all.
Jesus was anti corruption during Empire of Rome. I think something similar has happened in Western Democracies since 2000. Loose money laundering laws has brought Putin’s billions into western democracy ( our Temple).
Mistakenly we thought we could bring democracy to a dictatorship, but the opposite has happened. We didn’t just import stolen foreign capital from Russia, we also imported/ opened Pandora’s box of corruption. It is so clear to me now. How do I explain it better?
But the megachurches preach prosperity as a right and one blessed by Jesus. A few years ago, I remember seeing a Hummer in a parking lot. Its personalized bumper sticker read: If Jesus we're alive, he'd be driving a car like this.
So, WWJD? The Tucker Carlsons of the world say he'd be a rich autocrat pushing illiberalism.
This reminds me of the argument Christians made following 9/11 against followers of Islam not calling out their extremists. So now it’s time for Christian’s to answer that same question for themselves. The ones I know are sitting back from that fault line in their circle of influence. Why? Maybe because it fractures families, friendships, neighborhoods, communities and churches. We are all fearless in our delegation to others to face the rage. But when we have to do it ourselves? That takes much, much more courage and wisdom and diplomacy than many of us possess.
I am a mentor to pastors who are committed to improving their preaching. I hear every day how they struggle to preach the gospel of equality and justice in a cultural climate that includes people like those who supported the Roman government's first century oppression of the poor and who called for Jesus' execution because he was a threat to their power. The question is always how to get the message across, how to change hearts. In addition to the thousands of good-hearted preachers in local churches everywhere who do not agree with so-called "Christian" nationalism, voices like those of Jim Wallis of Sojourners, people who write for Christian Century, the Poor People's Campaign started by MLKing and now led by the powerful Rev. William Barber II, and others do counter the prevailing madness. What motivates hard work and courage of this sort is deep conviction that, for many people in and out of the limelight, is based in their faith. Who's to say it hasn't put something of a brake on the march toward autocracy? Not that we can stop worrying and working. Pastors have been fired in our time for even mentioning Black Lives Matter from the pulpit or doing their job to keep the people they serve save from the corona virus by insisting on masks. They need our gratitude and prayers.
I sent your comment to my stepson, who is a pastor in a small area near Sacramento; these are issues he struggles with in the community too. The few services we have attended are full of true love for all people, and to live as Christ did. Thank you for the work you do
Excellent point, Chris, the great appeal of being one of the chosen ones. Advertising “a one-time special offer only for discerning customers like you, good for eternity.“
How do you, Chris, know that the preachers I refer to are ignoring a huge, open, understanding of how the divine speaks to the world. Please don't assumer there is a closed door, a narrow way. Be careful of interpreting the Bible in a limited lens, the way the "Christian" nationalists interpret scripture. That is not the only window. I hope you can hear someone (listen to The Rev. William Barber II, for example) who hears a different voice from God than the voice that the "Christian" nationalists say they hear.
" It’s difficult to write a sermon on a gospel of equality and justice when your assumption is that God has revealed Himself once and for all time through only one scripture to only one tribe."
Is it not the case that there are thee monotheistic religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam, all of whom have one scripture? Why do you single out Christianity for attack?
I see one major difference between the right wing's criticism of Muslims for not reeling in extremists after 9/11 and their reluctance to call out extremists in their own ranks today. Muslims, especially women, risked sever punishment/death for speaking out. The evangelist today would most likely face sever shunning. It does take 'more courage, and wisdom and diplomacy."
Or The Family, the wickedly rich and powerful "Christian" group that organizes The Prayer Breakfast to wangle Presidents and Congresspeople into their dark moneyed fold.
Yes, even the different evangelical churches are now very different from one another. We have neighborhood churches in predominantly black populations who preach the teaching of Christ from a love and support standpoint. We have megachurches in white areas that will give forgiveness and teach patriarchal, submissive and such in exchange for exorbitant tithing. The more money you give, the more you are attended to. The giving back to the needy is also vastly different with these churches. One helps all who come to them, and other turns face need so they can buy jets and huge homes and fancy cars.
I understand reaching for the stars, I really do. But we risk letting the perfect become the enemy of the good. It’s so easy to forget the catastrophic risk of a second Trump presidency, when Biden seemed (at least to me) the only one who could beat him. Biden’s presidency has been the most progressive of my lifetime, and would be even more so with a larger congressional majority. That’s the conflict between idealism and pragmatism we all face.
You’re right and this is what tends to get Democrats in trouble. We as a party seem to have a terrible time coming to consensus or it appears so at least. We are too nice sometimes. We seem to hate to play hardball. After all these years Democrats still think republicans give a hoot about this country but I think it’s obvious to most of us that they just don’t. This nihilism has been a real eye-opener for many but I fear it’s not going to be enough to overcome the fools and tools that have been emplaced in positions of power to truly steal an election from the voters, and sooner than we may want to admit. Then what?
They don't speak up. Some may foolishly fall for anyone who claims to be Christian. But there must be enough out there to make a difference. Of course they might then be called "CINOs" by the real CINOs.
"The Grand Inquisitor" section of "The Brothers Karamazov" explains that kind of so-called "Christianity" pretty well. It's all about holding onto power. But then, isn't everything? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om6HcUUa8DI
I’m sorry but until the “real” Christian’s band together and publicly fight back to save our Democracy they remain will remain part of the problem. Importantly, it’s not just Christians. It’s the entire GOP and the Dems. Did anyone notice except for the Jan 6th Commission, there is no more talk about what the party in control of power is going to do to shore up our Democracy.
“People of mercy” are decent human beings. Racists aren’t. Religious claims of people in either group don’t affect their status in the decency dimension.
I think the definition of Christian being mangled started a long long time ago. That said, I don’t belong to a club nor do I define anyone by their club name. It’s the person that matters, not what they label themselves.
I was about to disagree, until you mentioned select passages from the Sermon on the Mount and other teachings. The actual teachings attributed to Jesus about how to live one’s life do not match what the Church has been dwelling on over the centuries. They especially do not match today’s “Christian” values as pushed by mega-church pastors and televangelists hucksters, who dwell on the Old Testament and the book of Revelations. The Gospels are apparently too politically progressive for them.
It won’t prevail by itself, and in many eras, the light failed for many consecutive centuries. That’s why the call it the Dark Ages, for example. Christianity was then at the top of its game in Europe, but the lives of almost all people were nasty, brutish, and short.
Pretty strong points Chris. Equally strong, I believe, in a world that is increasingly finite as humanity's increasing consumption (and contamination) of the planet's resources becomes more acute, science must be front and center in the creation of our governments' policies. The insistence of organized religion (certainly Christianity) of relying on faith and the grace of god to deliver us (as opposed to rational thought capable of changing as our understanding of reality evolves) is proving to be a big roadblock to so many things that must get done and done swiftly. It also is proving to widen the huge gap in this country between left and right. Combine that mentality with the greed and hypocrisy on display from so many in the Christian right, and you get something more akin to Gilead than Toronto (those who watched Handmaid's Tale will get this).
Jay, I agree “science must be front and center in the creation of our governments’ policies” but look how quickly the “Right” demonized Dr. Fauci and the CDC to the point that the indoctrinated base refused to follow safety guidelines!
I have thought about the COVID deniers and freedumbs" armies a lot. I feel that if DJT had not been president, we would not have had the significant and sudden rise to fight over safety policies and vaccinations. He instilled in his base (which in reality was around 40 some percent) the desire to believe all his gaslighting and lies and science denial without question. Add to that his underlying aggression communications, and it was a formula for craziness and chaos.
Thank you for your thoughtful post Chris that hit me like a gut punch. I am constantly aware of the patriarchy of Christian religions having spent my first 9 yrs of education in a Catholic school. But your words - the context and framing of this situation- is absolutely frightening!! It’s frightening bc I know ur words are true. My inner knowing is constantly whispering the dangers of the religious war the Christians are/want to wage, but before I would just dismiss the whispers as just my crazy. Now that someone who i dont know has articulated my thoughts- ….. I never thought I would see this in my lifetime esp bec i was born in the early free loving Vatican 2 60’s. I fear for my kids! Thank God I don’t have grandchildren!
I continue to have a problem with the identification "Christian". I recognize that Puritans called themselves Christians eventhough they persecuted their own members who lived more independently and Oakers with a different view of Christianity. Even to the point of killing them. I recognize that Confederates called themselves Christians eventhough they promoted slavery and killed slaves, abolitionists and Union soldiers to preserve slavery and their oligarchy. During Jim Crow, they burned crosses and killed those who threatened their oppressive rule. And then today Abbott, Desantis and many Republicans call themselves Christians while they do many unchristian things to other people. When are real Christians going to take the Christian identification away from these Philistines? Real Christians are people of mercy and a blessing for all.
@David Souers, I grew up Catholic. I recall only one story where Jesus resorted to violence. When he saw the money changers and vendors selling doves in the temple of Jerusalem, he overturned their tables and said, "my house will be a house of prayer and you have made it a den of thieves. Make not my Father's house a house of merchandise." If Christians want to be Christlike, THIS is the time to start overturning tables. That is the necessary path back to mercy and blessings for all.
Jesus was anti corruption during Empire of Rome. I think something similar has happened in Western Democracies since 2000. Loose money laundering laws has brought Putin’s billions into western democracy ( our Temple).
Mistakenly we thought we could bring democracy to a dictatorship, but the opposite has happened. We didn’t just import stolen foreign capital from Russia, we also imported/ opened Pandora’s box of corruption. It is so clear to me now. How do I explain it better?
But the megachurches preach prosperity as a right and one blessed by Jesus. A few years ago, I remember seeing a Hummer in a parking lot. Its personalized bumper sticker read: If Jesus we're alive, he'd be driving a car like this.
So, WWJD? The Tucker Carlsons of the world say he'd be a rich autocrat pushing illiberalism.
😣
This reminds me of the argument Christians made following 9/11 against followers of Islam not calling out their extremists. So now it’s time for Christian’s to answer that same question for themselves. The ones I know are sitting back from that fault line in their circle of influence. Why? Maybe because it fractures families, friendships, neighborhoods, communities and churches. We are all fearless in our delegation to others to face the rage. But when we have to do it ourselves? That takes much, much more courage and wisdom and diplomacy than many of us possess.
I am a mentor to pastors who are committed to improving their preaching. I hear every day how they struggle to preach the gospel of equality and justice in a cultural climate that includes people like those who supported the Roman government's first century oppression of the poor and who called for Jesus' execution because he was a threat to their power. The question is always how to get the message across, how to change hearts. In addition to the thousands of good-hearted preachers in local churches everywhere who do not agree with so-called "Christian" nationalism, voices like those of Jim Wallis of Sojourners, people who write for Christian Century, the Poor People's Campaign started by MLKing and now led by the powerful Rev. William Barber II, and others do counter the prevailing madness. What motivates hard work and courage of this sort is deep conviction that, for many people in and out of the limelight, is based in their faith. Who's to say it hasn't put something of a brake on the march toward autocracy? Not that we can stop worrying and working. Pastors have been fired in our time for even mentioning Black Lives Matter from the pulpit or doing their job to keep the people they serve save from the corona virus by insisting on masks. They need our gratitude and prayers.
I sent your comment to my stepson, who is a pastor in a small area near Sacramento; these are issues he struggles with in the community too. The few services we have attended are full of true love for all people, and to live as Christ did. Thank you for the work you do
💞
Thank you for reminding us of this.
💞
Excellent point, Chris, the great appeal of being one of the chosen ones. Advertising “a one-time special offer only for discerning customers like you, good for eternity.“
How do you, Chris, know that the preachers I refer to are ignoring a huge, open, understanding of how the divine speaks to the world. Please don't assumer there is a closed door, a narrow way. Be careful of interpreting the Bible in a limited lens, the way the "Christian" nationalists interpret scripture. That is not the only window. I hope you can hear someone (listen to The Rev. William Barber II, for example) who hears a different voice from God than the voice that the "Christian" nationalists say they hear.
" It’s difficult to write a sermon on a gospel of equality and justice when your assumption is that God has revealed Himself once and for all time through only one scripture to only one tribe."
Is it not the case that there are thee monotheistic religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam, all of whom have one scripture? Why do you single out Christianity for attack?
I see one major difference between the right wing's criticism of Muslims for not reeling in extremists after 9/11 and their reluctance to call out extremists in their own ranks today. Muslims, especially women, risked sever punishment/death for speaking out. The evangelist today would most likely face sever shunning. It does take 'more courage, and wisdom and diplomacy."
Or The Family, the wickedly rich and powerful "Christian" group that organizes The Prayer Breakfast to wangle Presidents and Congresspeople into their dark moneyed fold.
I gave up trying to figure out “real Christians” in 2006, thanks to Karl Rove
“Jesus, Save me from your Followers”?
Yes, even the different evangelical churches are now very different from one another. We have neighborhood churches in predominantly black populations who preach the teaching of Christ from a love and support standpoint. We have megachurches in white areas that will give forgiveness and teach patriarchal, submissive and such in exchange for exorbitant tithing. The more money you give, the more you are attended to. The giving back to the needy is also vastly different with these churches. One helps all who come to them, and other turns face need so they can buy jets and huge homes and fancy cars.
"Real Christians are people of mercy and a blessing for all."
Close enough to my own interpretation to pass!
:-)
Unfortunately, no "real Christians" are in power.
Biden is a “real Christian.”
Thank you!
I get what you're saying, but he's not nearly progressive enough for me.
I understand reaching for the stars, I really do. But we risk letting the perfect become the enemy of the good. It’s so easy to forget the catastrophic risk of a second Trump presidency, when Biden seemed (at least to me) the only one who could beat him. Biden’s presidency has been the most progressive of my lifetime, and would be even more so with a larger congressional majority. That’s the conflict between idealism and pragmatism we all face.
Ageed. Thank you.
You’re right and this is what tends to get Democrats in trouble. We as a party seem to have a terrible time coming to consensus or it appears so at least. We are too nice sometimes. We seem to hate to play hardball. After all these years Democrats still think republicans give a hoot about this country but I think it’s obvious to most of us that they just don’t. This nihilism has been a real eye-opener for many but I fear it’s not going to be enough to overcome the fools and tools that have been emplaced in positions of power to truly steal an election from the voters, and sooner than we may want to admit. Then what?
President Biden is not a King. What does not progressive enough even mean? He'll go down in history as the GOAT IMHO.
They don't speak up. Some may foolishly fall for anyone who claims to be Christian. But there must be enough out there to make a difference. Of course they might then be called "CINOs" by the real CINOs.
"The Grand Inquisitor" section of "The Brothers Karamazov" explains that kind of so-called "Christianity" pretty well. It's all about holding onto power. But then, isn't everything? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om6HcUUa8DI
Se, Luis Bunuel's "The Milky Way", a cinematic 'pilgrimage' from Paris to Spain on Christian heresy. Probably on Tubi.
I’m sorry but until the “real” Christian’s band together and publicly fight back to save our Democracy they remain will remain part of the problem. Importantly, it’s not just Christians. It’s the entire GOP and the Dems. Did anyone notice except for the Jan 6th Commission, there is no more talk about what the party in control of power is going to do to shore up our Democracy.
What?
???
Real Christians are few and far between the Philistines it seems.
Agreed, name them whatever you wish, but they are the antithesis of the Jewish Jesus of Nazareth
“People of mercy” are decent human beings. Racists aren’t. Religious claims of people in either group don’t affect their status in the decency dimension.
Can you define the word Christian for me, as you see it?
I think the definition of Christian being mangled started a long long time ago. That said, I don’t belong to a club nor do I define anyone by their club name. It’s the person that matters, not what they label themselves.
Bravo, Amen, Hallelujah!
I was about to disagree, until you mentioned select passages from the Sermon on the Mount and other teachings. The actual teachings attributed to Jesus about how to live one’s life do not match what the Church has been dwelling on over the centuries. They especially do not match today’s “Christian” values as pushed by mega-church pastors and televangelists hucksters, who dwell on the Old Testament and the book of Revelations. The Gospels are apparently too politically progressive for them.
Thanks for saying that. You saved me the trouble.
💞
I get afraid when I read a correct analysis of Christianity or any sect like this, Chris.
But I’m not scared. First and foremost, I always believe Light will prevail in the battle for truth and goodness.
Salud, Chris. 🗽
It won’t prevail by itself, and in many eras, the light failed for many consecutive centuries. That’s why the call it the Dark Ages, for example. Christianity was then at the top of its game in Europe, but the lives of almost all people were nasty, brutish, and short.
Pretty strong points Chris. Equally strong, I believe, in a world that is increasingly finite as humanity's increasing consumption (and contamination) of the planet's resources becomes more acute, science must be front and center in the creation of our governments' policies. The insistence of organized religion (certainly Christianity) of relying on faith and the grace of god to deliver us (as opposed to rational thought capable of changing as our understanding of reality evolves) is proving to be a big roadblock to so many things that must get done and done swiftly. It also is proving to widen the huge gap in this country between left and right. Combine that mentality with the greed and hypocrisy on display from so many in the Christian right, and you get something more akin to Gilead than Toronto (those who watched Handmaid's Tale will get this).
"God made man sufficient to have stood but free to fall. . . ." John Milton. I feel like we're currently in freefall.
Jay, I agree “science must be front and center in the creation of our governments’ policies” but look how quickly the “Right” demonized Dr. Fauci and the CDC to the point that the indoctrinated base refused to follow safety guidelines!
I have thought about the COVID deniers and freedumbs" armies a lot. I feel that if DJT had not been president, we would not have had the significant and sudden rise to fight over safety policies and vaccinations. He instilled in his base (which in reality was around 40 some percent) the desire to believe all his gaslighting and lies and science denial without question. Add to that his underlying aggression communications, and it was a formula for craziness and chaos.
It is not clear that the FDA or the CDC followed their own safety guidelines! https://www.wibc.com/blogs/tony-katz/only-half-cdc-employees-have-been-vaccinated-but-still-want-you-vaccinated/
That article is from May 2021 when vaccines were not so available. Probably different now.
A source for that, if you have one?
Thank you for your thoughtful post Chris that hit me like a gut punch. I am constantly aware of the patriarchy of Christian religions having spent my first 9 yrs of education in a Catholic school. But your words - the context and framing of this situation- is absolutely frightening!! It’s frightening bc I know ur words are true. My inner knowing is constantly whispering the dangers of the religious war the Christians are/want to wage, but before I would just dismiss the whispers as just my crazy. Now that someone who i dont know has articulated my thoughts- ….. I never thought I would see this in my lifetime esp bec i was born in the early free loving Vatican 2 60’s. I fear for my kids! Thank God I don’t have grandchildren!