Day 51, going on Day 52 of this nightmare of Putin holding center stage as if he was the leader of the Ringling Bros. Circus. The Ukrainians had a victory of sinking the death ship and bravo to them! They deserve many more victories as they are fighting with all of their might and soul to hold onto what they have.
Day 51, going on Day 52 of this nightmare of Putin holding center stage as if he was the leader of the Ringling Bros. Circus. The Ukrainians had a victory of sinking the death ship and bravo to them! They deserve many more victories as they are fighting with all of their might and soul to hold onto what they have.
I want our government to guide the Ukrainians in hunting down Putin and his allies until they do not breathe another breath. Biden was in the room when Osama bin Laden suffered that defeat by our brilliant soldiers. It can happen again. I want to see Trump scrambling up a tree as the indictments come after him and his allies. I want to see the Senate of seditionists shivering with fear that information of their whereabouts on Jan. 6th and before, reveal their evil plot. We were a bleeding nation for 4 god-awful years. Now we are looked upon as savior of other nations. Finland and Sweden should be immediately let into NATO. I pray they receive entry.
Hehehe right? Just one shining moment of sheer glee. Then back to thinking about ways to get out the vote here in this country. We’ve got autocrats of our own to “sink.”
sheer glee,huh? Like when your team's winning? people dead in that ship. while nuclear bombs sit on the table. tomorrow's children getting to chew on the worsened climate disaster thanks to this war, people dead, children dead, ship sunk, corpses on the streets, no video game, no football game, people dead, children dead, war profiteers like you filled with glee, money in their pockets, more more more! no game here, people, children dead. pets dead.....is war a time for glee? death?
Sheila is speaking of the people defending against the perpetrators of what you have described. And there is rejoicing when right makes an inroad against evil. I wish people would be as heartfelt in defending Democracy in the United States as you are today. We are in serious trouble here. Sheila knows that.
Ahh, "when right makes an inroad against evil"...I wonder when that "right" will make an "inroad against evil" here at home.....such purity has a big feast for it to devour right here at home with corporations - many subsidized and non-tax paying- running the legislative show making it look like you and I have a say in our democracy-appearing oligarchy (see Gilens & Page; Also, Wollin "managed democracy") Might this war be an obscene bit of performance art arranged to ultimately cut off China at their knees in a desperate attempt to ward off the USA empire being replaced by China? Talk about evil.
You come off as judgmental and 1 dimensional. But I doubt that is accurate is it. The other people here are also multi-dimensional in their thinking. You assume you know everyone's total thinking on war, evil and Democracy etc. You don't. None of us do.
In your anti war zeal you are in fact waging a kind of war against the good people commenting here. You are invalidating your passion for peace stance. Now here is your choice today. You can keep running all over this comments section today waging war or you can spread some much needed peace. As for me I am finished responding to your rants.
The reports I read said there were no casualties in the sinking of the Moskva. Russian media said it sank because of "a fire that spread to munitions, which detonated", or words to that effect. Yeah. I believe even they reported there were no casualties. I rejoice at any loss of Russian materiel, materiel used, BTW, to kill innocent men, women, and children.
Very hard to believe that there would not be casualties even if the Russian reports were accurate. And the fact that Russian ships moved away from the shores of Ukraine after the incident speaks volumes. If, in fact, Ukrainian missiles hit the ship, then it seems almost certain that at least some Russian sailors were killed and wounded.
Bruce, we can assume that, despite Russian propaganda, there were many casualties. A ship that size could not be sunk without catastrophic human toll. Sadly, they were victims of Putin's insanity. I'm thrilled that they have moved other deadly ships further out to sea, where their threat will be somewhat diminished.
So far, every account of what happened (NYT, WaPo, Axios) has said the crew had been evacuated when the blows struck that sank him (apparently the Russian navy refers to ships in the masculine). Until I hear otherwise I have to take this as fact. The ship was attacked and sank as it was being towed.
“War profiteers like you?” Do you know something about Sheila that the rest of us don’t, or are you just carried away by your own righteousness? There is much truth in what you say, but the certainty of your truth spoils it.
War is hell, Selina. People are dying and maimed. What suggestions do you have to end this uncalled for genocide of Ukraine? I doubt there were children on the death warship which is what has contributed mightily to the horrible destructions you mention on land and of two cities that are wiped out. Who are you speaking to here and calling them "war profiteers?"
I just learned the ship was being towed so no deaths then, that's a relief. I'm for our citizenry to be massed in the streets insisting on our efforts be for a negotiated peace. War profiteers - Goldman Sachs; Lockheed Martin, Raytheon; Facebook ...(see CBS.com "How Goldman Sachs profits from war in Ukraine, loophole in sanctions" Also:....As The Hill reported, the extra support for Ukraine "comes on top of more than $1 billion the U.S. has already spent in the past year to arm Ukrainian soldiers with modern weapons, including Javelin anti-tank missiles, manufactured by Lockheed Martin and Raytheon Technologies, and Raytheon's anti-aircraft Stinger missiles."....Also....The Weapons Industry Sees the War in Ukraine as a Goldmine Arms companies are exploiting Russia’s invasion to push a military spending frenzy.....and more....just google Who profits from Ukraine War).
Selina, This is not a regional disagreement - this is WW3, stage 1. Putin made abundantly clear from the beginning it’s NATO who he is starting the war with, he doesn’t want a peace deal and you can’t make him take it with negotiation even if you give him all Ukraine (not that it is yours to give). Whatever the US is spending on it now is a great investment into preventing us (or delaying us) from having to actually fight that war. Ukrainians are covering the entire world’s collective butt.
Yes, weapon makers profit from war, but this is an unjust war perpetuated by the Russian and specifically Putin. This is the sad reality and yes, they will take advantage because certain entities take advantage of every situation where they see profit. What kind of negotiated peace do you think Putin will accept.
The ship was evacuated, so no one was on board. It was being towed to a port. When the Ukrainians score a hit against the Russians, it does make people happy although all of us would rather this war and the climate disaster were not happening.
I posted that the "crew" had abandoned ship yesterday 4/14./22 approximately 500 crew members. Difficult to get valid data when the Moskva itself was a source of regional disinformation. I posted NYT's 4/14 citation to a named Ukranian military Commander near Odessa the likely area where a mobile Neptune Ukranian team launched the shore to ship missles. I do not think we can underestimate the full impact of this military clash given the full situational & historical context.
Bryan, for whatever it's worth, I heard an NPR broadcast around 4:00 EDT today that said that there was a crew abord when the Ukranian missiles hit. There was no verifiable information regarding casualties, but the assumption was that it was likely that there were some killed and injured. The ship was subsequently towed into port, where it sank. The fog of war, and the reliability that the Russians will spread misinformation. As you pointed out, we can't underestimate the impact of this strike, either militarily nor morale-wise.
I can feel your helplessness and horror but this is WAR. Unprovoked. Do I feel sorry for those poor Russian soldiers told they are being sent for "exercises" who are shocked to learn they're supposed to kill their brothers? Yes, it's heart-wrenching, but I'm not feeling sorry for Goliath. What's the alternative to defending your people? The ship that was sunk was the flagship in the region, in other words, it was where naval commands came from. Its obliteration is thrilling not for having killed more Russian military personnel, but for serving as a stumbling block against an attack on the very fibers of democracy....
"Unprovoked"? Please take a look at Consortium News ....the essay "NYT Smears Journalist, Calls 2014 Ukraine Coup ‘Conspiracy Theory’" by Ed Norton. And if you are intrepid enough to investigate that , then take a look also at Hedges "The Pimps of War"
and lastly, the piece entitled "Corporate Media's War Industry Pundits." Please note too, Consortium News has a reputation for clean fact checks.
YES. Unprovoked. Woman, a population is being systematically slaughtered at the hands of a madman. So they asked for that??? Military industrial complex reservations aside, this is an attempt to entirely obliterate a population (look at some of Putin's most recent unhinged statements...it's chilling) The stated rationale makes no sense to any sentient being. It's brutal, barbaric, senseless, and yes, unprovoked. NOBODY deserves what these people are suffering. The rest of the world is going to have to do something to stop this or, literally, millions could die. You'd be okay with that??? We've not seen such brutality on this scale since WW 2. I don't rejoice when people are killed, but I also rejoice when right triumphs over wrong. Sorry, but your sanctimoniousness is pissing me off. Putin would LOVE you...
We celebrate a moment of glory for “the good guys” amidst the horror of war. Helps give strength to those fighting and dying. Hopefully moves the hearts and minds of national leaders to help more.
Something about this brings "The Gulf Of Tonkin Incident" and Dubya Bush's insistence that "WMDs" necessitated our invasion of, was it, Iraq.? It seems Truth has become a chronic casualty of our reliance on WAR to meet our, usually disguised, and otherwise distorted greedy goals. What would "happen" if we literally invested in ALTERNATE ENERGY, rather than trying to capture other nation's poisonous resources by Military means? And lie about it.
I hope the Ukrainians painted “For the Children” on the rockets that sank the Moskva, it would be fitting after what Russia has done to that peaceful country. I keep wondering when the Russian military will turn on Putin, just how much do they have to lose before they send the tanks after him, the length of his table will be meaningless if a couple pilots decide they have had enough and obliterate the building he is hiding in just like they did to that theater hundreds were hiding in, in Mariupol. You have to be very careful what you ask for, especially when you unleash the dogs of war.
Total incompetence. Can’t park your flagship where it’s vulnerable right? Same as stringing out a convoy parked 40 miles long. I think the Russians have learned this lesson and are regrouping. May 9th has significance to them from WW2. Then this from Zelensky and CIA director warning of tactical nukes. Pretty scary world today.
At moments like these I often think of the Capt. Tom Phillip of the USS Texas, at the Battle of Santiago Bay. When the Texas’ big guns set one of the Spanish ships afire, the American sailors began to exult. Capt. Phillip leaned out of the pilot house and called out, “Don’t cheer,boys, the poor devils are dying.” The simple humanity of that cry, in the heat of battle, has always struck me. (At least on observer insisted that Capt. Phillip called the Spaniards “the poor fellows,” because he was a God-fearing Christian.)
Talk about irony, keep in mind that this was reported to have happened near Snake Island, where about a dozen Ukranian marines responded similarly when the Russians told them to surrender or be killed. Initially, the marines were reported to have been killed, but they were later revealed to be very much alive. As with Zelenskyy, a lawyer/actor, these underrated Ukranians have a way with words (and appropriate gestures).
I share TC’s glee. The Moskva was a powerful symbol for both sides, from its name and flagship status on the Russian side, to its being the recipient of the heroic “Russian warship, go F yourself” on the Ukrainian side. Glee, because the good guys managed something symbolic and extraordinary that day. I’m not blind to the risks on the table, but I think the only good outcome here is for Ukraine to win, so when they score a victory, I think it’s good. Very good.
glee? how can death, carnage, blood red running on the streets, evoke "Exultant or playful exhilaration; demonstrative joy or delight; merriment; mirth; gaiety."? Death - whose ever it is - is for keeps, no more a bright dawn, a lovers arms, a soothing quiet rain....tears....astonishment..
What do you propose instead of bombs, Selina? What's your solution? No one likes the bombs and killing. The glee is not for that. I'm sure you understand that, right?
Would you stand on a street and let someone shoot you point blank or would you shoot them in self defense first? Glee, because with the sinking of the Moscow we are that much closer to preventing the annihilation of the innocent people (mothers, great grandparents, children and infants) of Ukraine. The men on the Moscow are murders and would continue murdering until every last child was dead or pirated away to Russia for who knows what kind of life.
Yes, glee. No, this is not a video game. The sinking of the Muskova, who was the pride and joy of the Russian Navy, and his sinking showcases the lack of adequate response by the personnel aboard and lack of proper maintenance by the government. To read the Russian reports that he developed a fire and sank in heavy seas while under tow underscores how much that ship meant to Russia, and how unwilling they are to acknowledge the effective missile fire of the Ukranians.
Ally House - Glee? ship down? people dead? Glee - because the ship, a favored "toy" of Putin is destroyed? A real ego-trip, huh. Like at a football game when your side scores a point. Only your team gets to wake up the next morning and kiss their babes and see the scarlet tanager sitting on the branch outside their window, and pet their golden's soft head. I fear for us when we feel "delight" at "winning" when the win means death.
Selina Sweet, ARE YOU A RUSSIAN ‘BOT? Your first response got a pass because I can understand anti-war sentiments concerned by the deaths “on both sides.” But, this war was unnecessary and only occurred because the Russian Barbarian throwbacks to WWII INVADED A PEACEFUL NATION. From that point on it became a war of DEFENSE AGAINST A BRUTAL ENEMY. How dare you chastise a nation that has taken so much loss of life and destruction defending their sovereignty to live in peace. Yes, we have glee when an oppressor's prized ship which had the capability to inflict more death & destruction is lost. Had it gone down with all Russian hands on board, it still would not diminish the thousands of innocent civilians and children who have been murdered by the perpetrators. So, again I srsly ask are you a Russian ‘bot, or a real life sympathizer with a murdering aggressive enemy of democracy, who BTW is the one threatening nukes.
Then you need to toughen up, this world is not getting prettier. And we have our own evil autocracy on our shores wanting to genocide us. They fought against preparing for a pandemic where 1 million people died on our shores these past two years. We were powerless except to wear masks whilst they propagandized the whole pandemic is a hoax. I lost people because of this travesty of republican propaganda. We are at a critical moment to stand up and be part of the Resistance, or let them take over and create a worse slave state than we already are, and face the earth's destruction. Sounds a bit dramatic, but that front of us. Wish you could provide some solutions while we face some incredibly to tough decisions. It is not a game. It is life and death. That seems to be the "theatre" of the absurd on earth.
Right on Pensa....Join the Sunrise Movement...organize fellow citizens between elections to vote in progressives from local to national.....take a band of like minded into the offices of your state/national congressional reps to insist on spine in service of progressive agenda....please note: no visceral outcry yet from the citizenry on Biden's campaign promises: to wit student debt forgiveness, $15 minimum wage, etc).
I guess that as a practitioner of violence for most of my adult life, I am not as refined as you are in being able to see that perspective. There are enemies in this world. Sadly, those "sailors" on that ship were in harm's way because of their actions taken against a democracy.
Sailors is in quotes, because I do no believe that either their training or experience were up to the task of combat.
Selina Sweet, I feel glee that the Moskva will no longer rain death on Ukrainians. So, an instrument of death is destroyed with no loss of life—I’d call that a victory.
We have lived with that threat for decades. It is real, but so is the counter threat. Not everyone in some position of power in Russia is a complete fool - even Putin and his toadies are not in total control.
MaryPat, thank you for this. Prior to hearing this exchange, I believed that Ukraine was badly outnumbered, but am happy to hear that they're almost evenly matched. While it would be foolish to think that this is nearly finished, I feel more hopeful.
While I am so pleased to see our country leading the sanctions movement against Putin's evil regime my joy is diminished by remembering that we promised Ukraine that we would guarantee their security if they gave up nuclear weapons. What is the message Iran, North Korea, Pakistan and other autocracies take home about nuclear disarmament from the current catastrophe in Ukraine?
Marlene, it appears that Ukraine is doing a bang-up job of tracking down Russian generals, and "neutralizing" them, and using drones to distract their flagship's sensors so that missiles could sink it was sheer genius. Understanding the danger, I wish there was a way to supply them with even more military hardware, including aircraft, and send in NATO troops, regardless of the fact that they aren't members, to squash Russia's advances before they flatten every building in Ukraine.
For those of us who believe that we're mired in corruption and hamstrung by cynicism, I hope we can take heart that we can perform miracles here in our own "war."
Day 51, going on Day 52 of this nightmare of Putin holding center stage as if he was the leader of the Ringling Bros. Circus. The Ukrainians had a victory of sinking the death ship and bravo to them! They deserve many more victories as they are fighting with all of their might and soul to hold onto what they have.
I want our government to guide the Ukrainians in hunting down Putin and his allies until they do not breathe another breath. Biden was in the room when Osama bin Laden suffered that defeat by our brilliant soldiers. It can happen again. I want to see Trump scrambling up a tree as the indictments come after him and his allies. I want to see the Senate of seditionists shivering with fear that information of their whereabouts on Jan. 6th and before, reveal their evil plot. We were a bleeding nation for 4 god-awful years. Now we are looked upon as savior of other nations. Finland and Sweden should be immediately let into NATO. I pray they receive entry.
Barry McCaffery couldn't hide his glee over the sinking of the Moskva, and neither can I.
Hehehe right? Just one shining moment of sheer glee. Then back to thinking about ways to get out the vote here in this country. We’ve got autocrats of our own to “sink.”
sheer glee,huh? Like when your team's winning? people dead in that ship. while nuclear bombs sit on the table. tomorrow's children getting to chew on the worsened climate disaster thanks to this war, people dead, children dead, ship sunk, corpses on the streets, no video game, no football game, people dead, children dead, war profiteers like you filled with glee, money in their pockets, more more more! no game here, people, children dead. pets dead.....is war a time for glee? death?
Sheila is speaking of the people defending against the perpetrators of what you have described. And there is rejoicing when right makes an inroad against evil. I wish people would be as heartfelt in defending Democracy in the United States as you are today. We are in serious trouble here. Sheila knows that.
Can’t ❤️ this enough!
Ahh, "when right makes an inroad against evil"...I wonder when that "right" will make an "inroad against evil" here at home.....such purity has a big feast for it to devour right here at home with corporations - many subsidized and non-tax paying- running the legislative show making it look like you and I have a say in our democracy-appearing oligarchy (see Gilens & Page; Also, Wollin "managed democracy") Might this war be an obscene bit of performance art arranged to ultimately cut off China at their knees in a desperate attempt to ward off the USA empire being replaced by China? Talk about evil.
You come off as judgmental and 1 dimensional. But I doubt that is accurate is it. The other people here are also multi-dimensional in their thinking. You assume you know everyone's total thinking on war, evil and Democracy etc. You don't. None of us do.
In your anti war zeal you are in fact waging a kind of war against the good people commenting here. You are invalidating your passion for peace stance. Now here is your choice today. You can keep running all over this comments section today waging war or you can spread some much needed peace. As for me I am finished responding to your rants.
Peace.
The reports I read said there were no casualties in the sinking of the Moskva. Russian media said it sank because of "a fire that spread to munitions, which detonated", or words to that effect. Yeah. I believe even they reported there were no casualties. I rejoice at any loss of Russian materiel, materiel used, BTW, to kill innocent men, women, and children.
Very hard to believe that there would not be casualties even if the Russian reports were accurate. And the fact that Russian ships moved away from the shores of Ukraine after the incident speaks volumes. If, in fact, Ukrainian missiles hit the ship, then it seems almost certain that at least some Russian sailors were killed and wounded.
No “Russian casualties because Russia isn’t at war in Ukraine”. Same thing in Afghanistan, Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine since 2014.
See below...
Bruce, we can assume that, despite Russian propaganda, there were many casualties. A ship that size could not be sunk without catastrophic human toll. Sadly, they were victims of Putin's insanity. I'm thrilled that they have moved other deadly ships further out to sea, where their threat will be somewhat diminished.
So far, every account of what happened (NYT, WaPo, Axios) has said the crew had been evacuated when the blows struck that sank him (apparently the Russian navy refers to ships in the masculine). Until I hear otherwise I have to take this as fact. The ship was attacked and sank as it was being towed.
“War profiteers like you?” Do you know something about Sheila that the rest of us don’t, or are you just carried away by your own righteousness? There is much truth in what you say, but the certainty of your truth spoils it.
Possible she meant it with commas in there. "war profiteers, like you, filled with glee..."
My printing teacher used to say, "Say what you mean, and mean what you say."
War is hell, Selina. People are dying and maimed. What suggestions do you have to end this uncalled for genocide of Ukraine? I doubt there were children on the death warship which is what has contributed mightily to the horrible destructions you mention on land and of two cities that are wiped out. Who are you speaking to here and calling them "war profiteers?"
I just learned the ship was being towed so no deaths then, that's a relief. I'm for our citizenry to be massed in the streets insisting on our efforts be for a negotiated peace. War profiteers - Goldman Sachs; Lockheed Martin, Raytheon; Facebook ...(see CBS.com "How Goldman Sachs profits from war in Ukraine, loophole in sanctions" Also:....As The Hill reported, the extra support for Ukraine "comes on top of more than $1 billion the U.S. has already spent in the past year to arm Ukrainian soldiers with modern weapons, including Javelin anti-tank missiles, manufactured by Lockheed Martin and Raytheon Technologies, and Raytheon's anti-aircraft Stinger missiles."....Also....The Weapons Industry Sees the War in Ukraine as a Goldmine Arms companies are exploiting Russia’s invasion to push a military spending frenzy.....and more....just google Who profits from Ukraine War).
Selina, This is not a regional disagreement - this is WW3, stage 1. Putin made abundantly clear from the beginning it’s NATO who he is starting the war with, he doesn’t want a peace deal and you can’t make him take it with negotiation even if you give him all Ukraine (not that it is yours to give). Whatever the US is spending on it now is a great investment into preventing us (or delaying us) from having to actually fight that war. Ukrainians are covering the entire world’s collective butt.
Misinformation abounds. There are differing reports. “Lithuanian Minister of National Defense Arvydas
Anuauskas stated on the social network that the
cruiser "Moskva" had drowned.
"An SOS signal was given from the Russian cruiser
Moscow at 1:05. 1:14 The cruiser lay on its side and
after half an hour all the electricity went out. From
2 p.m., the Turkish ship evacuated 54 sailors from
the cruiser, and at about 3 p.m., Turkey and
Romania reported that the ship was completely
sunk. The related losses of Russian personnel are
not yet known, although there were 485 people on
board (66 of them officers), "A. AnuSauskas wrote
on Facebook” it will likely be awhile before truth is revealed. Plus there’s a report from Georgia that the initial hit took out the Captain. 🤷🏻♀️
Yes, weapon makers profit from war, but this is an unjust war perpetuated by the Russian and specifically Putin. This is the sad reality and yes, they will take advantage because certain entities take advantage of every situation where they see profit. What kind of negotiated peace do you think Putin will accept.
Oh, shucks. I thought you were targeting us in this community as war profiteers. Glad to know you are aware who the profiteers are.
The ship was evacuated, so no one was on board. It was being towed to a port. When the Ukrainians score a hit against the Russians, it does make people happy although all of us would rather this war and the climate disaster were not happening.
I posted that the "crew" had abandoned ship yesterday 4/14./22 approximately 500 crew members. Difficult to get valid data when the Moskva itself was a source of regional disinformation. I posted NYT's 4/14 citation to a named Ukranian military Commander near Odessa the likely area where a mobile Neptune Ukranian team launched the shore to ship missles. I do not think we can underestimate the full impact of this military clash given the full situational & historical context.
Bryan, for whatever it's worth, I heard an NPR broadcast around 4:00 EDT today that said that there was a crew abord when the Ukranian missiles hit. There was no verifiable information regarding casualties, but the assumption was that it was likely that there were some killed and injured. The ship was subsequently towed into port, where it sank. The fog of war, and the reliability that the Russians will spread misinformation. As you pointed out, we can't underestimate the impact of this strike, either militarily nor morale-wise.
Thank you for that piece of information!
I can feel your helplessness and horror but this is WAR. Unprovoked. Do I feel sorry for those poor Russian soldiers told they are being sent for "exercises" who are shocked to learn they're supposed to kill their brothers? Yes, it's heart-wrenching, but I'm not feeling sorry for Goliath. What's the alternative to defending your people? The ship that was sunk was the flagship in the region, in other words, it was where naval commands came from. Its obliteration is thrilling not for having killed more Russian military personnel, but for serving as a stumbling block against an attack on the very fibers of democracy....
"Unprovoked"? Please take a look at Consortium News ....the essay "NYT Smears Journalist, Calls 2014 Ukraine Coup ‘Conspiracy Theory’" by Ed Norton. And if you are intrepid enough to investigate that , then take a look also at Hedges "The Pimps of War"
and lastly, the piece entitled "Corporate Media's War Industry Pundits." Please note too, Consortium News has a reputation for clean fact checks.
YES. Unprovoked. Woman, a population is being systematically slaughtered at the hands of a madman. So they asked for that??? Military industrial complex reservations aside, this is an attempt to entirely obliterate a population (look at some of Putin's most recent unhinged statements...it's chilling) The stated rationale makes no sense to any sentient being. It's brutal, barbaric, senseless, and yes, unprovoked. NOBODY deserves what these people are suffering. The rest of the world is going to have to do something to stop this or, literally, millions could die. You'd be okay with that??? We've not seen such brutality on this scale since WW 2. I don't rejoice when people are killed, but I also rejoice when right triumphs over wrong. Sorry, but your sanctimoniousness is pissing me off. Putin would LOVE you...
We celebrate a moment of glory for “the good guys” amidst the horror of war. Helps give strength to those fighting and dying. Hopefully moves the hearts and minds of national leaders to help more.
Something about this brings "The Gulf Of Tonkin Incident" and Dubya Bush's insistence that "WMDs" necessitated our invasion of, was it, Iraq.? It seems Truth has become a chronic casualty of our reliance on WAR to meet our, usually disguised, and otherwise distorted greedy goals. What would "happen" if we literally invested in ALTERNATE ENERGY, rather than trying to capture other nation's poisonous resources by Military means? And lie about it.
Yes indeed Sheila, we've got another "Bismark" to sink right here at home. "Deja Vu All Over Again"! VOTE!!
I hope the Ukrainians painted “For the Children” on the rockets that sank the Moskva, it would be fitting after what Russia has done to that peaceful country. I keep wondering when the Russian military will turn on Putin, just how much do they have to lose before they send the tanks after him, the length of his table will be meaningless if a couple pilots decide they have had enough and obliterate the building he is hiding in just like they did to that theater hundreds were hiding in, in Mariupol. You have to be very careful what you ask for, especially when you unleash the dogs of war.
Exactly so. I'd love to see a large scale mutiny.
The Russians knew how to get rid of their last Tsar in 1918.
But not Stalin though, no one has figured out how to take out one of those. :(
From within, as what happened to Julius Caesar.
Saw that, too. Bravo to the Ukrainians. I imagine the news of the sinking has given Ukrainian forces new determination.
“What’s the first thing they teach us at the Naval Academy?”
“Don’t ever loose the Flag ship!” -Retired Four Star Navy Admiral James Stavridis
ESPECIALLY when the flagship is named after the national capital.
Total incompetence. Can’t park your flagship where it’s vulnerable right? Same as stringing out a convoy parked 40 miles long. I think the Russians have learned this lesson and are regrouping. May 9th has significance to them from WW2. Then this from Zelensky and CIA director warning of tactical nukes. Pretty scary world today.
https://apple.news/AcmvL6IrwQ-atVYY9WrgHXg
😧
Hubby is class of 84’
At moments like these I often think of the Capt. Tom Phillip of the USS Texas, at the Battle of Santiago Bay. When the Texas’ big guns set one of the Spanish ships afire, the American sailors began to exult. Capt. Phillip leaned out of the pilot house and called out, “Don’t cheer,boys, the poor devils are dying.” The simple humanity of that cry, in the heat of battle, has always struck me. (At least on observer insisted that Capt. Phillip called the Spaniards “the poor fellows,” because he was a God-fearing Christian.)
“Russian warship, go fuck your self.”
Talk about irony, keep in mind that this was reported to have happened near Snake Island, where about a dozen Ukranian marines responded similarly when the Russians told them to surrender or be killed. Initially, the marines were reported to have been killed, but they were later revealed to be very much alive. As with Zelenskyy, a lawyer/actor, these underrated Ukranians have a way with words (and appropriate gestures).
Nancy, even better, the Moskva was that same ship.
Oh, I didn't know that! Talk about sweet revenge. 😆 Thanks for this.
TC, do you suppose there's a chance that Zelenskyy bought those pesky little drones from Amazon?
I actually Laughed Out Loud on this.
Considering your flair for humor, I'm flattered, TC.
😂
Glee? With nuclear weapons sitting on the table? Glee? Is this a video game?
I share TC’s glee. The Moskva was a powerful symbol for both sides, from its name and flagship status on the Russian side, to its being the recipient of the heroic “Russian warship, go F yourself” on the Ukrainian side. Glee, because the good guys managed something symbolic and extraordinary that day. I’m not blind to the risks on the table, but I think the only good outcome here is for Ukraine to win, so when they score a victory, I think it’s good. Very good.
We are all Ukrainians!
glee? how can death, carnage, blood red running on the streets, evoke "Exultant or playful exhilaration; demonstrative joy or delight; merriment; mirth; gaiety."? Death - whose ever it is - is for keeps, no more a bright dawn, a lovers arms, a soothing quiet rain....tears....astonishment..
Tell that to the warmongers who started this war, Selina.
What do you propose instead of bombs, Selina? What's your solution? No one likes the bombs and killing. The glee is not for that. I'm sure you understand that, right?
Would you stand on a street and let someone shoot you point blank or would you shoot them in self defense first? Glee, because with the sinking of the Moscow we are that much closer to preventing the annihilation of the innocent people (mothers, great grandparents, children and infants) of Ukraine. The men on the Moscow are murders and would continue murdering until every last child was dead or pirated away to Russia for who knows what kind of life.
Yes, glee. No, this is not a video game. The sinking of the Muskova, who was the pride and joy of the Russian Navy, and his sinking showcases the lack of adequate response by the personnel aboard and lack of proper maintenance by the government. To read the Russian reports that he developed a fire and sank in heavy seas while under tow underscores how much that ship meant to Russia, and how unwilling they are to acknowledge the effective missile fire of the Ukranians.
Ally House - Glee? ship down? people dead? Glee - because the ship, a favored "toy" of Putin is destroyed? A real ego-trip, huh. Like at a football game when your side scores a point. Only your team gets to wake up the next morning and kiss their babes and see the scarlet tanager sitting on the branch outside their window, and pet their golden's soft head. I fear for us when we feel "delight" at "winning" when the win means death.
Selina Sweet, ARE YOU A RUSSIAN ‘BOT? Your first response got a pass because I can understand anti-war sentiments concerned by the deaths “on both sides.” But, this war was unnecessary and only occurred because the Russian Barbarian throwbacks to WWII INVADED A PEACEFUL NATION. From that point on it became a war of DEFENSE AGAINST A BRUTAL ENEMY. How dare you chastise a nation that has taken so much loss of life and destruction defending their sovereignty to live in peace. Yes, we have glee when an oppressor's prized ship which had the capability to inflict more death & destruction is lost. Had it gone down with all Russian hands on board, it still would not diminish the thousands of innocent civilians and children who have been murdered by the perpetrators. So, again I srsly ask are you a Russian ‘bot, or a real life sympathizer with a murdering aggressive enemy of democracy, who BTW is the one threatening nukes.
She may well be Russian.
Then you need to toughen up, this world is not getting prettier. And we have our own evil autocracy on our shores wanting to genocide us. They fought against preparing for a pandemic where 1 million people died on our shores these past two years. We were powerless except to wear masks whilst they propagandized the whole pandemic is a hoax. I lost people because of this travesty of republican propaganda. We are at a critical moment to stand up and be part of the Resistance, or let them take over and create a worse slave state than we already are, and face the earth's destruction. Sounds a bit dramatic, but that front of us. Wish you could provide some solutions while we face some incredibly to tough decisions. It is not a game. It is life and death. That seems to be the "theatre" of the absurd on earth.
Right on Pensa....Join the Sunrise Movement...organize fellow citizens between elections to vote in progressives from local to national.....take a band of like minded into the offices of your state/national congressional reps to insist on spine in service of progressive agenda....please note: no visceral outcry yet from the citizenry on Biden's campaign promises: to wit student debt forgiveness, $15 minimum wage, etc).
I guess that as a practitioner of violence for most of my adult life, I am not as refined as you are in being able to see that perspective. There are enemies in this world. Sadly, those "sailors" on that ship were in harm's way because of their actions taken against a democracy.
Sailors is in quotes, because I do no believe that either their training or experience were up to the task of combat.
No reported loss of life when ship sank.
Selina Sweet, I feel glee that the Moskva will no longer rain death on Ukrainians. So, an instrument of death is destroyed with no loss of life—I’d call that a victory.
We have lived with that threat for decades. It is real, but so is the counter threat. Not everyone in some position of power in Russia is a complete fool - even Putin and his toadies are not in total control.
https://youtu.be/PRBOqZ1Ap8c
MaryPat, thank you for this. Prior to hearing this exchange, I believed that Ukraine was badly outnumbered, but am happy to hear that they're almost evenly matched. While it would be foolish to think that this is nearly finished, I feel more hopeful.
It's so difficult watching our country being torn apart by those who have been put in office to protect it.
Those put in office there by non tax paying subsidized corporations -big money all lathering for a piece of the money war pie....
Did you note Dr. Richardson's comment on global corporation tax?
Just the idea of T___p scrambling up a tree, or trying to, has made my day.
While I am so pleased to see our country leading the sanctions movement against Putin's evil regime my joy is diminished by remembering that we promised Ukraine that we would guarantee their security if they gave up nuclear weapons. What is the message Iran, North Korea, Pakistan and other autocracies take home about nuclear disarmament from the current catastrophe in Ukraine?
What a vision, I’ll sign on
Marlene, it appears that Ukraine is doing a bang-up job of tracking down Russian generals, and "neutralizing" them, and using drones to distract their flagship's sensors so that missiles could sink it was sheer genius. Understanding the danger, I wish there was a way to supply them with even more military hardware, including aircraft, and send in NATO troops, regardless of the fact that they aren't members, to squash Russia's advances before they flatten every building in Ukraine.
For those of us who believe that we're mired in corruption and hamstrung by cynicism, I hope we can take heart that we can perform miracles here in our own "war."
I am with you 100%! I’m praying that Ukraine’s nightmare has opened eyes to the dangers of strongman government models.
Amen! Preach!