There was never any likelihood of the US accomplishing squat in Afghanistan since the Bushies wanted to go finish Iraq and as the PNAC said "real men want to go to Tehran." Twenty years of fucking up the Middle East as thoroughly as we fucked up Southeast Asia 50 years ago, and our passing will be as noticeable there as it is in Southe…
There was never any likelihood of the US accomplishing squat in Afghanistan since the Bushies wanted to go finish Iraq and as the PNAC said "real men want to go to Tehran." Twenty years of fucking up the Middle East as thoroughly as we fucked up Southeast Asia 50 years ago, and our passing will be as noticeable there as it is in Southeast Asia now. All the crap about the United States as the guarantor of stability after the fall of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War was so much hot air - we been the major destabilizer for the past 30 years. We could have helped the democractic forces in the former Soviet Union, but that would have taken too much hard work that no one would have noticed. Ukraine is run by the descendants of the Nazi collaborators from World War II. All the talk of the "victory of democracy" was the product of morons who couldn't find their ass with both hands on a clear day with a four hour advance notice. Biden's just turning off the lights and closing the theater doors.
I interviewed a retired Admiral today who fought in Vietnam as a junior officer and was present at the end in Saigon 45 years ago for my coming book. At the end he said "I hope my grandson becomes a janitor, anything but this military."
We've also been a major destabilizer in the Western Hemisphere for over 200 years through our policy of interventionism that, sanctioned by the Monroe Doctrine, has justified in our minds our meddling in the politics of other nation's governments. Unfortunately, many of our country's soldiers lost their lives (and many innocent foreign bystanders have lost theirs) while the U.S. was actually safeguarding the financial interests of corporations abroad (for example, the 1954 CIA-led coup d'etat in Guatemala). The long-term repercussions to some of the countries where we've "intervened" have been devastating (in the case of Guatemala, it endured a 50-year civil war). It's time to focus on improving the living conditions in our own country, and in ensuring that the lives of our brave soldiers who enlist in our military are not misused by our politicians.
It might help also to reflect a little ....and act...on what are the real needs of the Central and Southern American peoples are both so that they can live in harmony and without hunger....and put a stop to their constant desire to escape northwards to the US. This would after all be in the interests of the US Government.....and eventually of the corporations that actually serve the people.
I am not sure we have ever been concerned as a nation about the people’s of other nations. It has always been about resources and how cheap can we get them. We are not a high minded society yet, we don’t seem to be able to care for our own people’s interests. Some day we will have a utopian society, but I am not holding my breath.
the unfortunate thing about this article is the direction of criticism only at the US ..much as it is justified. It would be helpful if such critics addressed themselves with similar vigour and integrity to the problems that the Russian and Chinese governments give to their own citizens and everywhere else in the wotrld....and their use of their veto powers at the UN. The somewhat anti-american French have an expression which covers this "utopian" , slanted, but so very humane, thinking..."le pays des bisounours"..which roughly translates as the country of kissing teddybears. War is extremely nasty and has been with hunanity for ever, sanctions hit the people hardest of course...but suggest other means of getting Putin, Sadam, Xi, Ghadafi or Pol Pot to stop being "unreasonable" and i'm all ears as asking nicely without a big stick seems only to generate a demand for more carrots.
The penchant for warmongering by urging our people to concentrate on the misdeeds of other countries blinds many of us to things we can and must challenge in our own government's actions. Is it really our job to correct others' governments first? I do see that you criticized blame focused "only at the US." I was fascinated to see Max Blumenthal of The Grayzone and others on his website examine the record of the "institution" that accuses China of genocide in its treatment of Uygers. Then came a headline by Caitlin Johnstone, saying,
"The Entire World Should Be Laughing At America For Pretending To Care About Muslims In China." I don't agree with everything Johnstone writes, but I found that comment rather healthy!
Thanks so much for the reply, Stuart. As usual, you put it in perspective. I agree that we (western countries) have very few big sticks anymore - and the carrot & stick "answer" doesnt appear to work very well HERE either, does it? At least the carrot part.
The British started things after the 1914-18 war, the US replaced them following the 1939-45 war and maintained the oil-controlling dictatorships that facilitated the work of ExonMobile etc thereafter.......until the Mullahs of Iran through a spanner in their works by overthrowing the Shah Reza Palavi and "unfriendly competition" by the non-American oil companies took the prize in Iraq. Thereafter what a mess they....and the Europeans in Libya....have created in pursuit of profit.....and of course lip service to the ideals of democracy. Not much thought here has been given to the needs of the people!
Absolutely, Daria! Certainly, as far back as the early 20th century when the British discovered oil in the ME. Even the founding of the state of Israel was incentivized by US interests in petroleum. And, of course, the 1953 CIA-funded coup against the government of Mossadegh in Iran was swayed by the scent of oil. And on and on we go ...
Rowshan..in a little aside ...Mossadegh's daughter was "au pair" in my great aunt's house when the "coup" came down. She was wisked away instantly never to be seen again in the London suburb of Twickenham.
That's amazing, Stuart! I was great friends with a niece of his once upon a time. I was very little during that coup and we weren't allowed out, but I still remember the sounds of the crowds in the streets chanting "long live Mossadegh" some days and "long live the shah" a few days later.
Marginal note: the Ukrainian black hole is a little more complicated than the Russian propaganda version. Or their own.
As far as policies for the US to avoid are concerned, remember the slogan doing the rounds in Prague in late August 1968:
"The flies have invaded the fly paper."
And maybe bear in mind that the Kremlin has now occupied Russia as though it was yet another colony. An episode for which there are precedents in Russian history.
My comment comes from anti-Russsian, pro-Democracy Ukrainian friends who point out to me how many of "your bad Americans" have come over and fought with the Ukrainian militias to gain military experience. The forces they worry about aren't in office, but many in office are beholden to them.
Sounds like the kind of people who are said to have paid to join the snipers in the mountains around Sarajevo... (the "bad Americans", of course). But the "black hole" epithet wasn't gratuitous. Poor Ukraine...
"Ukraine is run by the descendants of the Nazi collaborators from World War II."
You know nothing of Ukrainian history and appear to believe Russian lies. I could refer you to some actual facts but it would not likely change your mind anymore than facts change Trump supporters minds
Thank you. There are far more knowledgeable people than I am. Anne Applebaum, Timothy Snyder, Paul Goble who translates and summarizes observations by Russian and Ukrainian writes at http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.com/
I am so sick of Russian anti-Ukrainian propaganda. We are currently surrounded on three sides by a huge build up of Russian military and have no idea what Putin will do. They are in position to end run Ukraine's defense line and roll up our army, though it will cost them bitterly.
Putin wants to rehabilitate Stalin so no one will look to closely at the fact he is operating much the same way. In 2006, I asked a group of students at a Moscow University how they felt about Stalin having just been voted the second most important Russian in history. They said history was of no concern to them, they were only interested in the future. I was sick inside for them.
I was drafted in 1972 and was never sent anywhere more exotic and dangerous than Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, as US troops were about to be withdrawn (slowly) from Vietnam. Actually, there's more to my brush with the military, but there isn't room here to tell the whole riotous tale. My little quote is from "Dispatches" by Michael Herr (recently deceased), which John Le Carrè said was "The best book (he) ever read about men and war in our time." I recommend it.
My husband was a non stop reader. He was also wounded on one of those doomed VietNam hill fights with the 173rd 1967-8, subsequently spent a year in army hospitals and returned many times to VA hospitals over a life time. A none stop reader, he felt it was the only book that came close to conveying a bit of what that was like for those very young men. Sad to learn that Michael Herr had died. Amazing book.
Hello K. From your use of the past tense I assume your husband has passed away. My condolences. I feel lucky I did not have to fight in Vietnam, and regret that so many people who did had their lives screwed up by that war. A friend of mine years ago had recently returned from several combat tours in Vietnam as a marine and was surviving and attending college on a 100% government disability. He used to say that he felt like a fish out of water back in the States and often complained that no one really wanted to know what he had done. He once described having to fire his mortar straight up as his position was nearly overrun at night and claimed that only a small number of soldiers were actually able to function in these situations, adding that once it was known he could function, he was repeatedly sent into situations likely to involve close combat. He said each time it happened he had the sensation of needing to die - in the sense of giving up all hope of life - before being able to fight effectively, so he figured he had died many times already and that death held no real meaning for him at all outside of combat. Though he had tried, he could not hold any job for more than a few hours and thought most people were afraid of him and were convinced he was "wacko" and therefore dangerous. We lost track of each other when I moved to Italy, and I think I may just try to find him next time I'm back in the States. We were in school together for a few years in Colorado Springs.
Some solid points, but I'm not too sure about this statement: "Ukraine is run by the descendants of the Nazi collaborators from World War II." Do you have references?
My comment comes from anti-Russsian, pro-Democracy Ukrainian friends who point out to me how many of "your bad Americans" have come over and fought with the Ukrainian militias to gain military experience. The forces they worry about aren't in office, but many in office are beholden to them.
There was never any likelihood of the US accomplishing squat in Afghanistan since the Bushies wanted to go finish Iraq and as the PNAC said "real men want to go to Tehran." Twenty years of fucking up the Middle East as thoroughly as we fucked up Southeast Asia 50 years ago, and our passing will be as noticeable there as it is in Southeast Asia now. All the crap about the United States as the guarantor of stability after the fall of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War was so much hot air - we been the major destabilizer for the past 30 years. We could have helped the democractic forces in the former Soviet Union, but that would have taken too much hard work that no one would have noticed. Ukraine is run by the descendants of the Nazi collaborators from World War II. All the talk of the "victory of democracy" was the product of morons who couldn't find their ass with both hands on a clear day with a four hour advance notice. Biden's just turning off the lights and closing the theater doors.
I interviewed a retired Admiral today who fought in Vietnam as a junior officer and was present at the end in Saigon 45 years ago for my coming book. At the end he said "I hope my grandson becomes a janitor, anything but this military."
We've also been a major destabilizer in the Western Hemisphere for over 200 years through our policy of interventionism that, sanctioned by the Monroe Doctrine, has justified in our minds our meddling in the politics of other nation's governments. Unfortunately, many of our country's soldiers lost their lives (and many innocent foreign bystanders have lost theirs) while the U.S. was actually safeguarding the financial interests of corporations abroad (for example, the 1954 CIA-led coup d'etat in Guatemala). The long-term repercussions to some of the countries where we've "intervened" have been devastating (in the case of Guatemala, it endured a 50-year civil war). It's time to focus on improving the living conditions in our own country, and in ensuring that the lives of our brave soldiers who enlist in our military are not misused by our politicians.
It might help also to reflect a little ....and act...on what are the real needs of the Central and Southern American peoples are both so that they can live in harmony and without hunger....and put a stop to their constant desire to escape northwards to the US. This would after all be in the interests of the US Government.....and eventually of the corporations that actually serve the people.
I am not sure we have ever been concerned as a nation about the people’s of other nations. It has always been about resources and how cheap can we get them. We are not a high minded society yet, we don’t seem to be able to care for our own people’s interests. Some day we will have a utopian society, but I am not holding my breath.
I would seriously hope that you don't hold your breath...this might take a very long time.
We should create a Marshall Plan for Latin America and rebuild.
As long as you do it with the people and not just to revive the economy for those hoarding all the ressources.
Yes, that is why specifically suggested MArshall Plan, which is how we should pattern it.
Then first help the people get rid of their existing governments, gangs and the power of the drug lords.
I posted this above - its certainly a different viewpoint of us (the US) from an experienced diplomat. What do you think?
https://www.alternet.org/2021/04/denis-halliday/?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=6966&recip_id=123317&list_id=2
the unfortunate thing about this article is the direction of criticism only at the US ..much as it is justified. It would be helpful if such critics addressed themselves with similar vigour and integrity to the problems that the Russian and Chinese governments give to their own citizens and everywhere else in the wotrld....and their use of their veto powers at the UN. The somewhat anti-american French have an expression which covers this "utopian" , slanted, but so very humane, thinking..."le pays des bisounours"..which roughly translates as the country of kissing teddybears. War is extremely nasty and has been with hunanity for ever, sanctions hit the people hardest of course...but suggest other means of getting Putin, Sadam, Xi, Ghadafi or Pol Pot to stop being "unreasonable" and i'm all ears as asking nicely without a big stick seems only to generate a demand for more carrots.
Hi Stuart,
The penchant for warmongering by urging our people to concentrate on the misdeeds of other countries blinds many of us to things we can and must challenge in our own government's actions. Is it really our job to correct others' governments first? I do see that you criticized blame focused "only at the US." I was fascinated to see Max Blumenthal of The Grayzone and others on his website examine the record of the "institution" that accuses China of genocide in its treatment of Uygers. Then came a headline by Caitlin Johnstone, saying,
"The Entire World Should Be Laughing At America For Pretending To Care About Muslims In China." I don't agree with everything Johnstone writes, but I found that comment rather healthy!
In other words, dont throw stones if you live in a glass house!
Thanks so much for the reply, Stuart. As usual, you put it in perspective. I agree that we (western countries) have very few big sticks anymore - and the carrot & stick "answer" doesnt appear to work very well HERE either, does it? At least the carrot part.
Wow.
MaryPat, be sure to read Stuart's response.
Oh, I'd say we've been mucking up the Middle East in the petroleum age far longer than 20 years...
The British started things after the 1914-18 war, the US replaced them following the 1939-45 war and maintained the oil-controlling dictatorships that facilitated the work of ExonMobile etc thereafter.......until the Mullahs of Iran through a spanner in their works by overthrowing the Shah Reza Palavi and "unfriendly competition" by the non-American oil companies took the prize in Iraq. Thereafter what a mess they....and the Europeans in Libya....have created in pursuit of profit.....and of course lip service to the ideals of democracy. Not much thought here has been given to the needs of the people!
Absolutely, Daria! Certainly, as far back as the early 20th century when the British discovered oil in the ME. Even the founding of the state of Israel was incentivized by US interests in petroleum. And, of course, the 1953 CIA-funded coup against the government of Mossadegh in Iran was swayed by the scent of oil. And on and on we go ...
Rowshan..in a little aside ...Mossadegh's daughter was "au pair" in my great aunt's house when the "coup" came down. She was wisked away instantly never to be seen again in the London suburb of Twickenham.
That's amazing, Stuart! I was great friends with a niece of his once upon a time. I was very little during that coup and we weren't allowed out, but I still remember the sounds of the crowds in the streets chanting "long live Mossadegh" some days and "long live the shah" a few days later.
Truth!
Marginal note: the Ukrainian black hole is a little more complicated than the Russian propaganda version. Or their own.
As far as policies for the US to avoid are concerned, remember the slogan doing the rounds in Prague in late August 1968:
"The flies have invaded the fly paper."
And maybe bear in mind that the Kremlin has now occupied Russia as though it was yet another colony. An episode for which there are precedents in Russian history.
My comment comes from anti-Russsian, pro-Democracy Ukrainian friends who point out to me how many of "your bad Americans" have come over and fought with the Ukrainian militias to gain military experience. The forces they worry about aren't in office, but many in office are beholden to them.
Sounds like the kind of people who are said to have paid to join the snipers in the mountains around Sarajevo... (the "bad Americans", of course). But the "black hole" epithet wasn't gratuitous. Poor Ukraine...
TC, keep your bullshit to your self.
"Ukraine is run by the descendants of the Nazi collaborators from World War II."
You know nothing of Ukrainian history and appear to believe Russian lies. I could refer you to some actual facts but it would not likely change your mind anymore than facts change Trump supporters minds
I trust Allen Hingston on Ukraine.
Thank you. There are far more knowledgeable people than I am. Anne Applebaum, Timothy Snyder, Paul Goble who translates and summarizes observations by Russian and Ukrainian writes at http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.com/
I am so sick of Russian anti-Ukrainian propaganda. We are currently surrounded on three sides by a huge build up of Russian military and have no idea what Putin will do. They are in position to end run Ukraine's defense line and roll up our army, though it will cost them bitterly.
Putin wants to rehabilitate Stalin so no one will look to closely at the fact he is operating much the same way. In 2006, I asked a group of students at a Moscow University how they felt about Stalin having just been voted the second most important Russian in history. They said history was of no concern to them, they were only interested in the future. I was sick inside for them.
Allen, thank you for your perspective from the inside. I would love to know more. What’s happening in the Ukraine and it’s border is troubling.
If you are on Facebook, search Ukraine Russia conflict You will find dozens of articles. Else just Google it.
Solidarity and rock on. Mad Heads are a Ukrainian treasure imho
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhJoFf0joHE
TCinLA, I love this: "Biden's just turning off the lights and closing the theater doors."
Ah, "Vietnam Vietnam Vietnam, we've all been there."
And you were in-country when and where?
I was drafted in 1972 and was never sent anywhere more exotic and dangerous than Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, as US troops were about to be withdrawn (slowly) from Vietnam. Actually, there's more to my brush with the military, but there isn't room here to tell the whole riotous tale. My little quote is from "Dispatches" by Michael Herr (recently deceased), which John Le Carrè said was "The best book (he) ever read about men and war in our time." I recommend it.
My husband was a non stop reader. He was also wounded on one of those doomed VietNam hill fights with the 173rd 1967-8, subsequently spent a year in army hospitals and returned many times to VA hospitals over a life time. A none stop reader, he felt it was the only book that came close to conveying a bit of what that was like for those very young men. Sad to learn that Michael Herr had died. Amazing book.
Hello K. From your use of the past tense I assume your husband has passed away. My condolences. I feel lucky I did not have to fight in Vietnam, and regret that so many people who did had their lives screwed up by that war. A friend of mine years ago had recently returned from several combat tours in Vietnam as a marine and was surviving and attending college on a 100% government disability. He used to say that he felt like a fish out of water back in the States and often complained that no one really wanted to know what he had done. He once described having to fire his mortar straight up as his position was nearly overrun at night and claimed that only a small number of soldiers were actually able to function in these situations, adding that once it was known he could function, he was repeatedly sent into situations likely to involve close combat. He said each time it happened he had the sensation of needing to die - in the sense of giving up all hope of life - before being able to fight effectively, so he figured he had died many times already and that death held no real meaning for him at all outside of combat. Though he had tried, he could not hold any job for more than a few hours and thought most people were afraid of him and were convinced he was "wacko" and therefore dangerous. We lost track of each other when I moved to Italy, and I think I may just try to find him next time I'm back in the States. We were in school together for a few years in Colorado Springs.
Some solid points, but I'm not too sure about this statement: "Ukraine is run by the descendants of the Nazi collaborators from World War II." Do you have references?
I'll repeat what I said above:
My comment comes from anti-Russsian, pro-Democracy Ukrainian friends who point out to me how many of "your bad Americans" have come over and fought with the Ukrainian militias to gain military experience. The forces they worry about aren't in office, but many in office are beholden to them.
Gee, TCLA! Tell us how you really feel! It should be as it is — appalling, but true! 🪖
Whoof, not much to add that.